Highsec Corporation War Exploits

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
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Since I’m no longer in any corp but my own, I figured I’m free to post here as it will only draw consequences to me. I know how people who disagree with you on the forums hunt you down in game to attack you and your corp so… Anyway. Here I go…

So it seems that CCP has ignored the fact that you can exploit being invulnerable to war by creating another corporation that owns all the structures and have that corp named randomly so no one knows who it belongs to.

In my opinion, this is an exploit that should probably be stopped. It has allowed players to keep mining, missioning, sciencing, production, everything, safely during war because even if you war dec the stations they own if you figure out which corp is their station corp, you can’t hurt the players. It takes ages to bring down a structure, especially stations from what I’m told. A PVP friend of mine informed me it is life draining to kill a citadel.

The point of wars in highsec, is to kill players, not structures. This exploit effectively makes that impossible. Something needs to change here.

I discovered that the previous corp I was in owned a station under a holding corp of theirs that was named generically. I discovered this because when they kicked me, I lost some assets that I couldn’t get out of the station. I figured out that the corp that owned the station was actually their corp. That corp does all kinds of things, mining (mostly in afk orcas that sit there at a moon for 2-4 hours without any human players there), mission running, etc. Its a war corp’s dream to attack them. But they can’t, because technically by EVE standards they don’t own a station. The station that is theirs, is under a corp generically named. Not that a war corp would bother wanting to attack that anyway.

Perhaps war dec needs to change so that corps over a certain player threshhold become at risk. Counting everyone in the alliance as well for alliances that have over that threshold. I realize this potential possibility would just spawn sub corps that act independently but if you have a low limit then it makes it harder to manage that much plus the costs of owning anything like a corp hanger becomes harder. I’d say 25 players for war dec capability, maybe just 20. But thats just my thoughts. Could go a step further and make it so that corps fall into groups, and can only be war decced by a group at their level or below them.

A corp with 5 members or less is considered a Micro Corp, and can not be war decced.

A corp with 6-25 members is considered Small Corp, and can only be war decced by Small Corps. During War, the pre war and war and post war times, no one can join or leave the corp.

A corp with 26-75 members is considered Medium Corp.
A corp with 76-199 members is considered Large Corp.
A corp with 200 or more is considered Massive Corp.

Alliances count all their corp’s members, so an alliance with 3 corps each having 20 members each is now a Medium Alliance and can be war decced as such.

Thats just one idea I have for solving some of this “structure ownership evading” stuff.

Honestly I’m sure someone here who actually does wars and stuff could have some far better input here. I am just going by what I witnessed myself as a non-PVPer and what my PVP friends have told me.

I hope that my input here is decently stated and understood. Hopefully valued in some way too. :stuck_out_tongue: I suspect I’ll be getting a lot of people attacking me in game who hate this idea because thats just how people work.

P.S. Sorry for lack of formatting, I’m not used to using this form of editor.

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I’m glad you’re thinking about solutions, but it seems like CCP has different ideas about what constitutes a working wardec system than you or I do. We know, as does everyone else, that wardecs traditionally have been used to target players, not structures. Also that shooting structures is no fun whatsoever, nobody likes it, and it is only ever done to either provoke a fight, or occasionally when there is an isk motive which outweighs the misery.

The new wardec system seems intended to eliminate wardecs which target players, and only permit those which target structures. With this in mind, it doesn’t matter if folks keep structures in a holding corp because the holding corp can be wardecced in order to shoot the structure, and the players don’t have to worry their little heads about being shot at by wartargets unless they opt in to the war in order to defend the structure. This seems to be how CCP wants it.

Honestly, from the perspective of somebody who enjoyed wardecs for years, both as an attacker and a defender, the old mechanics, prior to involving structures, worked perfectly fine. Players who didn’t want to fight were free to opt out by joining an NPC corp for the duration. Nobody had to be a war target unless they wanted to be. Which is fine, because we don’t need lots of people just quitting the game because they get wardecced, which is what happens when they don’t have any way to opt out. The only issue was the expensive fee - 50 to 500 mil was too much for the little guys, causing consolidation into the “big 5” war alliances. The system generally worked fine, and lots of people enjoyed it.

Basically CCP completely ignored the advice of any players who enjoyed wardecs, and attempted to eliminate our playstyle from the game. They simply don’t want wars which target players in highec, only those which target the structures themselves.

Of course, players being clever, some have found ways to adapt somewhat. The real casualty is entry level wardec content. Used to be there was a whole progression from newbie solo & small group wardec corps right up to your elite merc alliances. Every time CCP makes it harder to be a wardeccer, the elite, experienced folks adapt fine, but there are less and less opportunities on the newbie/startup end of the spectrum.

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Yea, it seems that it would be better to let people opt out of the war before it starts. Where as I suggested that no one would be able to leave or join, I think changing that to let people in the defending corp leave during the first 24 hour waiting period would be better.

Its funny because CCP intended to make war decs hard so that player versus player would cease to exist in highsec, but it had the opposite effect. Now instead of just leaving the corp for a while so you don’t get shot at suicide ganking is popular and happens often. I think this may have been the goal of CCP all along, to make suicide ganking a big thing to make sure highsec is no longer safe for anyone, or perhaps it just backfired and ended up that way and they don’t care to do anything to fix it because it’d make all the PVPers quit the game and without them the game would shrivel up and die out.

We do need new solutions to wars, I think that my idea for the corp size would help make wars a little more evenly matched at least. I actually forgot about defender corps in the war thoughts too when I was typing all that up. It’s been ages since I had been in a war.

At least I got a good reply here today, I honestly expected a bunch of players raging out at me with hate and name calling. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Welp, I moved the idea I made from this topic to its own post in the player ideas section.

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WarDecs were modified because they simply became a way to hunt players in high sec without Concord getting involved. Any of the solutions above would either be gamed to have the current state we have or simply allow hunting players without concord intervention. The players playing in Highsec do so because they don’t want to be freely targeted in PvP though most understand they’ll be ganked if not careful. Otherwise, they’d go to low, null, or WH space for better profits.

Wars are now about territory and stations. Your Index is too high? Kill off the competing stations in your system. Market near you is undercutting your taxes? Wardec and try to bring it down. Want to be the only refinery in your .5 system? Yep you guessed it, wardec is there for that.

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Except, all player trade is done in NPC stations. The increased taxes CCP did won’t solve that. It just comes out at the cost of the players buying things.

Back when I suffered wars, it was about stopping people from being able to mine or mission, forcing those people out into NPC corps or to wait out the war.

But anyway, I’m about to give up on the forums. My input, my hard work trying to find good ways to balance things, gets met with ridicule almost every time, rather than people trying to help adjust the idea to work, to work around the pit falls. Nope, just easier to insult than to work with others to understand and improve. I’m not saying that happened here though. I’m just meh right now. Too many times I’ve been ridiculed and laughed at today. I see now why no one wants to be a part of the eve community. I’d have put more effort into replying to your post if I wasn’t so meh right now.

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Heh Eve forums are indeed a… unique place, The change to wardecs was triggered because CCP’s data showed that forcing players to either fight wars they did’t didn’t want, stay offline, or join an NPC corp was causing players to not sign back in again. In particular it was hurting new player retention the worst. They therefor changed the Highsec war focus onto structures.

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Except now they increased the value of suicide ganking and have made it become the next issue. Now everyone who participates in certain activities is at risk of being forced to fight or lose things.

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Before people were freely engaged because their corp became permanently wardeced in many cases. Now they have to fear gankers, but it’s MUCH harder to profitably gank as opposed to just catching your war target with 8 T3s. To be clear, everyone has always been at risk during anything in Eve, but not it’s much harder to do it consequence free.

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Which is why I proposed war declaration changes as mentioned in the new thread. War declarations would no longer be infinite, it would cost more to renew it for extended periods, it would have exit clauses, it would stop 500 people from war deccing 5.

There are a lot of areas in the game that need to be changed to rebalance things overall. Which I now realize is pointless cause CCP would never work that hard to fix it because obviously the players will never be happy anyway and now I’m told CCP doesn’t even use the forums, they seem to use reddit more.

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heh, with the quality of most of the posts on the forum I can’t blame them.

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I tried Reddit today. Is far far worse. CCP actually replied to me when I sent a message but they say they have no control on the reddit. The reddit users are far far more toxic because they can’t be reported and the reddit owners don’t care.

Seems like the entire EVE Community has a problem because no one’s managing it anywhere. I don’t think I’ll post ideas anymore, this game is dead. CCP don’t watch it, they let their trolls watch it and keep people from submitting anything. People are afraid to reply to my topics even if they support it. I already quit for 2 years because of the game’s toxicity, came back and its worse than its ever been. Thought I’d try and help come up with ideas to fix some things but nope. I guess not.

I do hope someone in the dev team sees this topic at least and considers some of it. I’m sure there is something here they can use. Even if they change up the numbers and such. I’m just meh right now. Someone vandalized one of my topics here and the other on reddit.

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Eh the toxicity of the forums\reddit doesn’t really represent the Eve game as a whole. The game has it’s share of trolls, but there are a lot of a great groups out there and the game is humming along just fine. Half the time I think the people who post don’t actually play the game or have an agenda.

In this case of wars in particular it’s more of a way you want it to work vs a way CCP is envisioning it working. There is nothing wrong persay with your envisionment of wars, but it’s not the direction CCP wants to go. Their current strat is to make things easier for new players and more difficult for high end players. Allowing HS player corps to grow without the fear of wardeccing is part of what they wanted.

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Which increases the amount of suicide ganks there are and makes people create even better ways to suicide gank, not caring if its a new player or not that they hit. While PVP ships keep evolving, industry ships seem to devolve or just “change” and remain the same stagnant ship that can’t really be protected. I mean, you can always gank something more valuable than you. Like how the PVPers tell me you can kill any orca no matter its fitting with 4 ships worth 50 mill each or less. 800 mill ISK ship killed by 200 mill ISK. Whats the incentive for gankers to consider not ganking? There isn’t one. Wars being impossible only increased the incentive.

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I’m not tracking the logic of how suicide gankers are any worse than being wardeced. Gankers will always gank. It’s a profit tactics and sometimes people just want to be a dick. A miner that didn’t want to be wardecced previously joined an NPC corp to avoid being decced or if their corp got decced. They were still just as susceptible to getting ganked, and arguably more so since an NPC corp typically denotes an easier target.

In the case of a wardec, the player is susceptible to a legit attack at any given moment AND susceptible to getting ganked. Worse yet they are often encouraged to join an NPC corp, breaking social bonds, or not play at all till the wardec is done.

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When we were war decced, we hired mercenaries to defend us.

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That’s assuming you make enough isk off your activity to afford merc defenses and that those merc defenses can actually defend you. That was a very different time to what we have now.

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This is not an exploit. This was an intended and obvious consequence of the change. You can name the corp randomly, but it’s still in space and the owner is obvious. Shell corporations that are designed solely for putting up structures will have to run the risk that they won’t be able to protect those structures.

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