Dynamic Security Status for Null + other banter about the game

I like the idea of making nullsec a little harder, but the giant entities are already easily adapting. Horde have moved to Kevala into a particular location where many, many more systems will reside under an umbrella of a response fleet. What I would like to see down the road is the implementation of a dynamic null security status. Currently, systems in nullsec are graded between -1.0, and -0.0. I would like to see systems change dynamically according to rats killed every 24 hours which is a statistic that can be easily viewed. Every day that a certain threshold is hit in pirate ships killed in the last 24 hours, the security will increase by 0.1, when it reaches -0.0, no rats or anomalies will be present in system, it will be completely barren. The system will have a higher ADM due to its higher security. Security could have an influence on ADM where higher increases it, and the lowest literally destroys it. System security would decrease much slower then it would increase with massive farming, sometimes resulting in competition for richer areas. Going from -0.9 to trusec would take a few weeks of no activity, but when trusec is hit, the system would shape dramatically. When a unutilized system reaches -1.0, a special forward operating base for the npc faction of that space is spawned, and rats are dispatched that will ignore damage caps and reinforcement cycles on all structures in system, purging it within a few hours, but this kind of purge would only happen if a system is truly unutilized for a large period of time. The FOB would also destroy all TCU/IHUB in system and prevent new ones from being placed for a short time, after which the FOB would be disassembled and moved out, leaving a large rich presence of trusec. This would prevent cyno jammers from being put online immediately in a new trusec system.

Smaller groups would not need to worry much, as the requirement to increase the system’s security to -0.0 would probably be much higher then what small organizations can farm in a day, and reaching -1.0 and structure/sov loss would require no activity for a long time . Medium sized groups would probably have to switch to different systems within a constellation on occasion, but large groups farming multiple singular systems constantly would deplete it and have to move to entire different constellations every few weeks. Low activity systems would slowly see a decrease in security status as they are not utilized until they cap out at -1.0 or become utilized inbetween.

Response fleet umbrellas may or may not have to move, but under utilized systems in the outskirts would have better riches and higher risks will be required as these richer areas would probably be outside the response umbrella for instant response, although you should still expect a response at some point as they will midpoint and this makes sense. As far as ore mining anomalies, I’ve always felt that they should be depleting at a higher rate and that a great mistake was having them always plentiful in the same ol systems that groups have been stripping from for years now. We shouldn’t nerf it so hard to the point that new groups and players can never catch up to those who have been exploiting them for years now, but having to mine from different systems, with occasions where the best ore anomalies may be in a pipe rather then a dead end pocket, and all this combined with the blackout would make the game difficult again even for the powerbloc krabs that currently have a safer space to make money with no risk. A blackout alone will be adapted to very well by the larger groups and I do think some other things needs to be added as well without making it too impossible for those who did not bear the fruit of age coming to an end.

With this system, it will take around 1 month for a system to become purged for being unused. It will be common for systems to be around -0.6 to -0.8 for small groups to live in, the largest groups will be able to easilly secure an area and have to move their umbrella. The numbers I used as examples are just brainstorming, but the point of the system is so ensure that the most dead, unused systems are lost without making it so that decent sized groups constantly have to rat everywhere to maintain their space. In the latter stages, you pretty much have to not use your space at all for half a month to lose it. These numbers should be ajusted as necessary, I just used a quick glance at npcs destroyed in 24 hours to throw out a guesstimate. Of course the most secure systems with local will belong to the big blocs, but these systems will not be very rich in bounties and at times may lose security.

-0.0: No ratting anomolies spawn, sparse rats exist throughout asteroid belts and gates. ADM gets a huge boost. Local chat is restored within this system.

(If less then 30 rats die during any given day, at the next down time the system will become -0.1)

-0.1: No ratting anomolies spawn, rats begin to frequent belts, gates, and pocos. ADM is boosted. Local chat is restored within this system.

(If less then 90 rats die during any given day, at the next down time the system will become -0.2)
(If more then 270 rats die during any given day, at the next down time the system will become -0.0)

-0.2: Den anomolies spawn. Rats frequent belts, gates, pocos. Local chat still remains.

(If less then 180 rats die, at the next down time the system will become -0.3)
(If more then 540 rats die, at the next down time the system will become -0.2)

-0.3: Mostly dens spawn, but a few rally points may be found as well. Local black out goes into effect.

(If less then 360 rats die, at the next down time the system will become -0.4)
(If more then 1080 rats die, at the next down time the system will become -0.2)

-0.4: Dens and rally points are common.

(If less then 360 rats die, at the next down time the system will become -0.5)
(If more then 1080 rats die, at the next down time the system will become -0.3)

-0.5: Hubs have immediately become common in these systems now. Rats regularly invade ore anomolies. Enemies have a beachhead, calculations for security will now be made every 3 days.

(If less then 1800 rats die after 3 days, the system will become -0.6)
(If more then 5800 rats die after 3 days, the system will become -0.5)

-0.6: Havens and Sanctums can now spawn, but not as often.

(If less then 3600 rats die after 3 days, the system will become 0.7)
(If more then 15000 rats die after 3 days, the system will become 0.5)

-0.7: All amomolies are common. Enemies have a foothold, security calculation will occur after 7 days.

(If less then 3600 rats die after 7 days, the system will become -0.8)
(If more then 70000 rats die after 7 days, the system will become -0.6)

-0.8: All anomolies are common.

(If less then 250 rats die after 7 days, the system will become -0.9)
(If more then 70000 rats die after 7 days, the system will become -0.7)

-0.9: Forward operating bases now appear in space in addition to common anomolies, diamond rats patrol but do not attack citadels yet, mine belts and ore anomolies themselves. Rats will attack Ansiblex and Tenebrex structures.

(If less then 250 rats die after 7 days, the system will become -1.0)
(If more then 35000 rats die after 7 days, the system will become -0.8)

-1.0: The system’s IHub and TCU will be despawned, an NPC Fortizar will spawn along with a nearby territorial claim unit held by the NPC faction. Diamond rats will attack citadels constantly. The Fortizar will block any ihubs from being placed until it is destroyed. This structure will have only 2 timers that will come out 24 hours after being reinforced.

(If NPC Fortizar is destroyed, the system will become -0.4)
(If the Fortizar is left alone for X days, it will unanchor to be used elseware, and the system will become -0.7)

Like I said, the values are all brainstormed and will probably have to be something different :slight_smile:

For some reason I really like it, but no local chat.

I’d love to see some dynamic security statuses but I am 100% against having it be tied to PvE.


It should be based on control, the more neighboring system an Alliance controls the more secure the center systems become.

Yeah being tied to pve is something that made me decide to make the numbers much, much lower to drop to -1.0, I don’t really enjoy crabbing myself either. The real significant numbers are to just make it so that systems can be depleted.

We can keep it no local too…but maybe give the biggest empires something special if they manage to keep a system secure for X amount of time. Like if they have a temperate planet in system, that planet skin gets replaced with one of the high sec metropolis planet skins adorned with cities, something pretty to put a citadel on for they have brought civilization here by eliminating piracy! haha…and put a nice message in the bio of the planet info panel with a tribute to their organization :stuck_out_tongue:

Null sec needs to be darker. The only data that is given should come from pilots within a corp.

What is the point of no local when the system tells you how many npcs blown up, pilots need to be out there watching.

Evil as it might sound but the last recorded interview touched on something that would make pilots bleed from their ears and eyes when introduced.

I think trust and espionage could play a major role on such data.

The best part of this post is that it does nothing to solve the addressed issue and actually makes it worse, showing an extreme lack when it comes to understanding how null works.

Even goons would be able put a rotation into place ensuring there were always systems to farm. All this does is make null even harder for mid sized groups and does nothing but mildly inconvenience large entities.

This post sinks of someone who had a “wouldn’t it be neat if” idea then tried to find a reason it was needed

I don’t really have a lack of understanding. I am just one player that cares. I know that this thread will probably fall into the darkness by tomorrow. :stuck_out_tongue: I started eve when there was a CRT monitor on my desk. I was making alts in 2005, Tycho VI and Durandal VI. I’m proud to own powerful toons that I picked the names for, I could not imagine playing a character with a name picked by someone else. I never required skill injectors, I only used them to extract from one toon to optimize the others, and this was a great use for them, something that drastically changed my game without having to spend much as extractors were cheap. Straight buying SP from skillfarms with 30+ characters making it so that the SP that people bought wasn’t really coming from someone else’s real effort/character progression is where that mistake lies. I played before 2005, back to beta days but I lost that character and don’t even remember it’s name. I was apart of Curse Coalition, the old Northern Coalition(morsus mihi), old goons, IRC at it’s peak. I’ve fought in many wars. When I first started ratting in an Ishtar, during those times it was smarter to go far from your staging system. I got my first super a long time ago and when Infamous collapsed in Catch due to a civil war, where I logged into a pos that I no longer had the permission to reside in. I solo moved it by myself 14 mid points to the north through the great wildlands watching the ingame map light up with ships in space moving to trap and hunt me down, and I lived :wink:

Back in the day there were great reasons to fight wars. Some regions were more valuable then others. Many systems were more desirable, for a variety of reason, during the different eras of sov mechanics. Jump fatigue was a good thing even though people like to rally against it. Only those that rally against it are the ones who flew in the slowcat fleets in Fountain, would see a ping about their R64 being bashed in Catch, and arrive before those few dreads were out of their second siege cycle. I was apart of Brave when they were first evicted from Catch, for not agreeing to willingly throw themselves into an arranged farm by the enemy. During that time there wasn’t really much that could be done, all it took was to drop on the station with no damage cap, with an apex super fleet, and quickly flip it along with everyone’s assets stored inside. But this is what happened. The great masses weren’t crying, bitching, screaming nerf supers. We knew that a much greater force was here to take what was ours. But the defenders put up a grand fight where they could, the defenders didn’t roll over like the former attackers did today. We fought to the last system, HED-GP, and when it was over we had an epic blockade run of the Keberz gate into high sec, against a camp and ships full of everything that we owned. But we fought hard where we could for those guys who may not be able to get their ships out. We held that grudge, some of us for years. We had an enemy that we loved to hate. Then a day came where we had our opportunity for revenge, after hard work, getting to that point. With asset safety you can just press a button and you wouldn’t have to lift a finger after that, except to just leave way before some memorable moment could ever take place. Is that a good thing? I don’t think so.

Sure, the specifics of my idea could be a lot better and more well thought out. But it is of the opinion of someone who has lived in nullsec for a large chunk of the game’s existance, that how it is today just isn’t sustainable. You can pick a system on dotlan, deep in a pocket, with many others in jump range, and you can farm infinite spawns. A hundred thousand NPC ships a week. A hundred thousand ships would take over jita, amarr, it would own all of highsec if that were ever unleashed. Infinite ore anoms make no sense, yes these things I have benefited from. I own not just a titan, but multiple supercapitals, I’ve benefited from the recent changes. I recognize that closing it off completely would be bad for those who didn’t happen to play the game for this short period of time, unless you intend to nerf the things that many people have worked hard to obtain to slowly but surely purge them from existance, but I also think there is a better way that can provide riches for small, medium, and large groups alike in nullsec and I truly do want players who aren’t apart of the largest groups to have an avenue with some kind of great system but one that is also immersive and requires good gameplay.

I want to see the game fixed, but I also don’t want those who have not benefited to lose out. I want groups and players who play smart to be able to make great things happen. I want wars and space to be worth fighting for. If Fraternity falls back to the dronelands, what do you think will happen? If people can just sit in one spot and farm millions of NPC ships and trillions of m3, mostly coming out of 10 or so of the same systems in the game. Systems, not constellations, or regions.

Yes, if you choose to move next door to a massive powerbloc as a small force in comparision, and you don’t have a good relationship, and they run their systems dry, you should expect to have your things taken. With what I threw out there, big group rotations wouldn’t extend too far, for they could easily overextend themselves, and the parameters could change and be perfected by CCP. With the right numbers to avoid a rotation too large. Also having certain places have unique benefits once again could give incentive to stay close. But eve is a very big place, there are places far away from the big blocs, and for the most part you can live in null without interacting much with them. Jump fatigue made that so. The two largest forces are literally positioned the greatest distance from one another, and there is a lot of space in between. And they are content with just gathering the 90% of the wealth in the game coming from just a handful of systems in jump range and that does not make a whole lot of sense to me.

When you had first started eve, can you recall how easy or hard it was to get into the position you feel that you had reached back in 2005?

One where there was the ability to farm infinite spawns and salvage hundred thousand NPC ships a week?

Is there no place left in space, one where you can move out to expand into to allow new fresh corps in?
Sounds like if you didn’t start 10-15 years ago you will have to deal with the top 5 or join one of them.

This very big place you wrote about, who owns that? or Are you referring to someone’s back yard?

Yes, back then there were giant groups as well. But you didn’t have to join with them to enter nullsec. This is way back though, before the time of Northern Associates and Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere, that era definitely had to be changed. Before then, conflicts were much more localized it seemed. People weren’t really concerned with that was happening x lightyears away outside of the largest 2 powers at the time. Now I guess it all depends on what you consider should be a fresh corp that should be eligible to enter null sec. I was apart of a few allianceless 60-100 man corps back in the day. Most of them never made it out of high sec. Several died in highsec to wardecs alone. It’s supposed to be like that. Eve should be brutal, although the wardec HQ was a good move. There was always a progression, a rite of passage. Lowsec was the place to grow back then!!! Once your highsec fresh corp survived the brutality that is eve for awhile, you made it to lowsec. There many different paths would take shape. Some would die there, some would thrive and have fun, some would form alliances and become stronger, and strong corps and alliances could contend against other strong corps and alliances and this would be the point of entry through that regional gate, after a certain point was reached where you thought you had a chance. Sometimes what was on the other side was too much, or sometimes you got in there! Friends were made along the way. But you know, there was a progression there. You don’t just form a fresh group and expect to charge into the most dangerous of space and expect to have everything handed to you. You have to grow a bit first. I guess that one of the biggest reasons that it was so much more localized was because back then not many people knew the entire map. When you play dayz for the first time it is so overwhelming finding your way around, but after a little while that feeling starts to fade. I guess that could be a factor in why things were so localized back them, among others…

Now 15+ years later, that progression has changed quite a bit. Lowsec isn’t really a great place to grow, when what people have accumulated is really hard to go up against, should they choose to exist there. Unfortunately, the progression change is a recent issue, in the last few years. I can see why Falcon would have the idea that banning supers out of lowsec would be a good idea to him. I would rather see something like disabling doomdays once again, as well as the torpedo ability of heavy fighters in lowsec. I would also support complete removal of HAW and long range fighters entirely from the game. However, supercaps should still have a place in the battlefields of great contenders, and a role in battle, even if they are more vulnerable. They should still bring something to the table for the effort involved in acquiring them. These days, battles between battleships won’t make the pcgaming mmorpg news wires, unfortunately. This is why they shouldn’t be nerfed into complete irrelevance like some think they should. There is a unique feeling that no other game can provide when you go into a closely matched battle with a ship that took hundreds of hours to acquire. Although this kind of dopamine release is rare, although I will admit that I got a little bit when I soloed a Curse with a post revamp VNI! haha…

Maybe buffing the dreadnaught is the answer to the capital equation, especially against citadels so that the escalation chain will appear more often. This way more supercapitals will die because they could undock more into elaborate setups, traps, or things they thought but weren’t prepared for, thanks to blackout. We throw radical ideas here, some that may sound ridiculous. But maybe you can have a dreadnaught in siege be able to ignore damage caps, or penetrate damage caps greatly. Hell maybe they can also cause damage to Ihubs and TCUs, being the only ship class that doesn’t have to use an entosis module, but requiring the siege module to be this effective. And ■■■■, while we are at it, let dreads move slowly in siege, even let them warp in siege after 90 seconds of aligning. :smiley: The trade off though would be complete loss of ability to self repair, and limited capacitor recharge while in siege so that a small group of subcaps could neut them dry and jumping out right after exiting siege would be much more difficult.

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