I think you might be confusing practical with theoretical.
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HAHA really funny,
Today’s Capsulers are a bunch of entitled and whiny people. You have 3 Accounts? Why not 4? Go for 10 or 20 accounts! Damn entitled newer Capsulers, if it wasn’t for Alpha accounts you could PLEX 100 Accounts! I managed 100 PI Farms in addition to counting widgets. On top of that, I inherited the ISK of a Interbus Shuttle from my boxed EVE Online copy 2008. To Plex an account did only cost 2.5BIL a year back in 2008 . We pulled ourselves up by the bootstraps while destroying the economy! We Bittervets love ISK. I have enough ISK assets and ships to clog New Edens stargates and choke a bunch carebear creatures to death because HTFU, that’s why! Back in my day, which was around the empyrean age expansion, I would warp 30 minutes for tutorials agents, naked BOTH WAYS when it was -50 out in cold space. I warped uphill, downhill, sideways, backward, and through the space-time continuum to get an education from an tutorial agent! I once tried to look for the “ISK” key in the agency window and I still can’t find it.
Sips Quafe Ultra
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What?
First off all, what are we talking about here? I thought we were talking about the benefit of a universal income to low income individuals, and not the ability of some players to make vast sums of wealth.
Second, I still maintain that economic mobility in Eve is really ■■■■■■■ good. Allow me to elaborate.
- Becoming a space tycoon with 50 trillion isk might be hard, but there are billion guides out there telling people how to make decent money -many of which are specifically geared towards low skill alphas. In fact, I have personally used such guides to quickly get up to 50-100 million isk/hr incomes on new alphas that I needed to keep financially independent. Now, to be fair, I do have the benefit of years of experience, but I give far more credit to the guides, than I do to myself. Indeed, I’m suddenly embarrassed by some of my recommendations on how to make isk as a newbro, and probably need to make some videos unlisted. Long story short, the plethora of money making guides out there mean that even newbros who play 4 or 5 hours a week have the ability to make decent money.
- Admittedly, the guides on how to make good money are in shorter supply (as people are financially incentivized to keep quiet), but there are still excellent resources and opportunities for those willing to look a little harder to find them. So, you don’t have to have a deep understanding of this game and it’s mechanics, be a theory crafting god, a no-lifer, or anything like that. You just have to be willing to do a reasonable amount research and preparation.
- And while I don’t think that it’s easy to become space wealthy, I do believe that generating vast sums of wealth is more heavily influenced by personal qualities (i.e. ingenuity, intelligence, and determination) in Eve, than it is in real life (which is more dependent on things like connections, generational wealth, political influence, and ■■■■ like that).
Because then it wouldn’t actually be benefiting the players that it’s supposed to be benefiting. I mean, it wouldn’t necessarily be bad for the game, but this is kind of like a super lite version of new players trying to buy plex, thinking it will help them get ahead.
I’m trying to find a good scientific explanation of why potential energy isn’t theoretical …
… but I always end up more in philosophy and disagreements between physicists and mathematicians.
Or maybe I’m looking wrong.
There’s no theoretical limit to how rich you can get …
… and thus there’s no practical limit, ignoring that a signed 64bit value has an upper limit, of course.
Just because someone’s incapable of doing something now …
… doesn’t mean he’s incapable of doing something tomorrow.
Even carebears can be, and have been successfully, converted.
Interestingly enough that never works just using theory …
… but works really well in a practical manner …
… by providing them a voluntary Adrenaline rush.
One fix has always been enough.
What you’re saying is true, however, it doesn’t have much to do with the effects of a universal income, or the issue(s) it’s trying to solve. The main argument against it seems to be that it would somehow inhibit players’ desire to do bootstrap-pulling, and that they’d lose the drive to go out and generate even more wealth, but it just doesn’t hold up from a practical perspective. A player getting a few million ISK per day as a baseline grant wouldn’t lose the desire to have 50, 100, 500, or whatever million per day on top of that.
It would afford players additional chances to experience and learn how to deal with loss, thereby accelerating the learning process, which is in fact a tangible benefit, as tolerance of risk is one of the major components of skill for an EVE player.
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Please excuse the interjection, but I was wondering if you would like to make a video about how rookies can make lots of money in pochven with relative ease, while not actually risking much. I could show you around where we are (which will, I believe, end up as one of the rookie systems for triglavian-new-players at some point) and show you how it works.
I could also record the stream of our recording …
… which would benefit you even more …
… because there’s a second perspective.
Are you interested?
PS: This isn’t a trap to getting to shoot you. I’m not going to shoot you. That’d be pointless.
No, it wouldn’t. It would be doing the opposite of that.
You don’t learn dealing with losses by having the loss alleviated and it doesn’t matter if it’s being alleviated in advance.
You only learn how to deal with a loss by dealing with the loss …
… and money does not help dealing with a loss. It eases the loss and thus lessens the value of the lesson/experience.
It’s the difference between throwing a kid into the water so it learns to swim …
… and throwing it into the water with a life jacket on.
“It’s not so bad, I get to survive anyway.”, aka “It’s not so bad, I get the money back anyway.”
That’s not learning how to deal with loss …
… it’s indifference.
Are you deliberately applying a carebear perspective onto things?
I’ve seen you do this several times in this thread.
Mistakenly editted this post.
Trying to recreate it:
Thank you for providing the “think of the children” experience which completely dismisses the natural survival instincts and instead treats children like helpless victims by default. Additionally noteworthy is the fact that he truly believes that the parent in question wouldn’t be jumping after the kid in case something goes wrong, which is actually unlikely. He’s also deliberately ignoring all the people who did this and how there was no issue.
He wouldn’t be aware of that, or willing to admit that, though, because in his world children are, by default, helpless victims.
People nowadays are as dumb and whiny as they are exactly because of the “think of the children” crowd, because they deny children the experience of learning how to deal with hardships and out-of-wack situations.
That’s more or less it.
False dichotomy.
You’re making it sound like getting a small grant would completely trivialize loss, as if those players would be getting nearly limitless resources.
We’ve already talked about this in other posts above. It doesn’t matter where this money or that money comes from, because all money has equal value. Just because someone would get free money, doesn’t necessarily mean that they would treat it as if it were completely disposable, while treating the money that they made themselves like it’s sacred and needs to be conserved at all costs.
Ten bucks is ten bucks. If I gave you ten bucks, you wouldn’t make a paper crane out of it; you’d put it in your wallet, and treat it with respect, just like the rest of your cash.
But giving players a small grant like this might shift their psychology slightly in the direction of higher risk tolerance, which is a very desirable goal.
No, I’m applying my experience onto things.
And I’ve trained more new players how to fight, and have more solo PvP experience, than probably everyone else in this thread combined.
I’ve accidentially editted my above post. -.-
It’s not small for those who have even less.
For those who have even less it’s quite a lot.
If it was such a small and as you imply, irrelevant grant, then there wouldn’t be any point in granting it in the first place,
yet you believe it somehow is a good idea that actually helps, despite it just being an apparently irrelevant grant.
So which is it?
Once again, you’re only dealing in absolutes.
We’ve already established above that this would happen on a sliding scale for new players. The end sum would help a player two or three weeks old or older to ship up from a frigate after a major loss, or to save up and occasionally get something bigger and nicer.
And yes, some players (e.g. older ones) would get no practical benefit from this, because the amount wouldn’t even register against the rest of their daily income. That’s kind of the whole point.
Almost correct. It’s most parents you are aware of nowadays,
because they’ve gotten raised into being helpless victims who don’t trust in their childrens natural instincts.
That doesn’t change anything about it. I’m just going to ignore you from now on …
… because you’re using Appeal to Extremes (logicallyfallacious.com) due to the lack of an actual point.
Examples are the fact that you seriously believe a parent wouldn’t jump in to save his kid …
… and now your talking about non-stop-death as if that was an actual real thing.
All you’re doing is further underlining that you believe people, especially children, are stupid victims by default.
TL;DR: You’re a bad person. vOv
Edit: What kind of person thinks this post is inappropriate?
I’m not the one claiming that it’s only a small grant …
… ignoring that it’s relative to the amount one already has.
You are.
You’re so wrong, there’s no point in continuing.
Enjoy your circle jerk with the (very likely mostly) toxic assholes who agree with your idea.
vOv
First of all, I never did this. Second, a static grant having different values to different people based on its relative value to income/net worth is, once again, the whole point of a universal income.
I don’t think this is a good idea.
Don’t give the man a free fish each day, teach him how to fish.
If you think newbies could use a sum of ISK each day to fall back to when they lose their frigates, tell them to take a look at Project Discovery.
I remember when I joined a corp in null as newbie. It took me a while to figure out how to make enough money to pay for my losses, but when I did I was feeling comfortable in null (and by my own doing!) even though I was only flying the cheapest of ships.
With a free daily base income I wouldn’t have needed to figure out anything for that: just don’t play for a couple of days (except for logging in) and I’ll be able to replace that blingy pirate frigate with those nicely coloured modules.
This may be my second issue with a free basencome: how frequently is it paid out?
Daily? Unfair for people who lose ships daily compares to those who play once a week and have 7x more to spend.
On a per hour played basis? Well you can expect a lot of afking then.
EVE has no base expenses, so I think there is no need for a base income either. Teach those newbies how to earn ISK instead.
One doesn’t detract from the other.
Hypothetically.
I don’t think many, if any, players would actually do this. People are either going to be excited about playing a video game and anxious to log in (you know the feeling I’m talking about), or they’re just not going to be that into it. “Waiting for more money to buy a blingy ship” is what some people will try to tell themselves, but really, they’d have one foot out the door already, and won’t stick around regardless of any such considerations.
Daily seems like the most optimal option.
Everyone would get the same amount. Someone buying/losing 7 cheaper ships in 7 days would receive the same utility from the program as someone who buys/loses a single bigger, more expensive ship in that time frame.
I sent you an evemail.
Thanks for the post, a good read.
I think that many more and greater horrific events will happen on earth before a universal income makes sense. It might in the future, especially to those who survive the insanities of the psychopaths who rule and ruin this planet.
Income and Race are two of the few things that the elites use to devide mankin into the “worthy” and “trash”, or to use Clinton’s words “Deplorables”.
Money is too precious for some people to give. It’s a sin to them since Money is their god so any idea that suggests giving is viewed as blasphemy.
As for those who pull the strings, irl or in-game, Charity isn’t what they signed up for. They’re here for fortune and fame, the new player or the bum crossing the street is barely more than an NPC, something to shoot at, make fun of, swindle, use…
As for EVE Online, judging by what I’ve seen, it’s just another mmo like most out there that exists solely for profit so the very idea that a player would get 10mil just for logging in is beyond laughable.
I’m not laughing because CCP can’t do it, though, or that the game economy would suffer for it.
I’m laughing because CCP could do it but they won’t. Not a million years.
I’d prefer the universal income over login SP really, you log-in, your wealth goes up by a tiny bit that just magically moves into your wallet. The posted sum of 10m is a drop of water on a hot stone either way, after numerous payout bumps and countless rounds of buffs everywhere, whoever settled in a certain activity will hardly notice that.
It would be a huge contribution for starters over the first few days however, when even t2 drone skills eat those 10m the second you got those, but on the other hand veterans wouldn’t even notice a change in the wallet. Without some knowledge regarding eve and how it works, you don’t have much of a margin for error to be experimenting when trying to build an income out of nothing.
3.6b a year sounds healthier compared to 1.8m SP each year as well.
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