Gatecamps

If i used to kill some frigates with a help of assault one near gate in lowsec is it gate camp? https://zkillboard.com/kill/76123792/

Scipio I have experience a lot with what you are suggesting. And they are not totally a solution. Just workarounds. And indeed i have better solutions than you.

E.g. Mining or Pve doesnot matter. Do travel at the weekend with your BS, Barge etc. Do scouting first with your single acount. At one of them you will lose your ship.

For experienced players they have better workarounds. They are surviving better. And accepting some loses. But it makes it harder for newer players to learn the game and to have fun. And for what? Just to favor gatecamping.

See the example above given. Poor explorer traveling with 2 stabs. He died one month ago and probably stop playing the game because of this type of non competitive, zero inteligency, non-sense type of pvp.

Did you even look at his killboard? He was in a wormhole losing another one a week later. What he wasn’t doing was coming here whinging in the forum.

Think of the children ignores the existing players and vets. We don’t need to make the game easier and easier, just to think of the children.

That’s one of the weakest arguments in the forum because no one actually backs the “poor newbies” argument up with any evidence, yet if you look at the early Brave and later Pandemic Horde and Karmafleet, new players can deal with the challenges of the game just fine.

The more the game goes down the path of being easier for us, the more it will continue to bleed the veterans that came here for a game that no longer exists. Unfortunately. they aren’t being replaced by new players and we should be thinking of ways to bring back loyal players rather than chase a mythical fountain of new players thay are going to stick with the game.

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Even you were waiting for him at the gate when he is jumping from otherside. he has already has 2 stabs and already aware about this problem. And he is flying a cheap ship etc. This is more acceptable.

But why he is trying to adapt a situation for a blind jump? Make the game better. Give this poor explorer a tool to look at the other side of the gate. And that experienced people need to catch him using more intellignecy if they are serious about having fun to kill a poor explorer, miner, new pvper etc.

Inb4 the post complaining that smartbombs on BS are OP and should be nerfed :wink:

:smiley:

Why don’t you go camp some gates then come back and let us know how easy it was by showing off all the kills you get?

Ahh you see this is called ‘risk’ and it makes for exciting times. However you seem to be very adverse to this, so I would suggest you just contract your ship (pvp/mining/missioning/whatever) to red frog freight (or black frog if you’re moving through low sec) and then jump clone to station. All your gate camp problems are solved with one account… simples!

Regards,
Cypr3ss.

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Pure explorer do right thing. He don’t go to forum crying about gate camps. Hi ask what did he make wrong))). It is realy simple to escape 95 % of gate camps. Other 5% make this game spicy)))

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There is no way to escape the gatecamp. For newbie like players, or who are in processing to learn the game, they are just feeding players who likes to kill people 5v1. Which has no sense for gaming, pvp, intellignecy, competency…

Yes when you become more experienced player, you have some workarounds, which are also dont solve the problem %100.

But why making the game hard for the new players. Make it hard for the experienced player. Let him try to run after him, make combat scanning, make traps, make baits etc. Not just catch him from a blind jump. This is one of the games main problem i think.

As you just said those in process of learning the game. By learning the game you figure out ways to avoid getting caught or skill to a ship that avoids gatecamps with ease. Play smart use an hauler service to move main kit to where its needed and install jump clones.

I have done gate camping solo in sabre seen many new players escape and get out. Your idea would pretty much kill content to those who play solo looking for some kills here and their when its already hard enough as it is solo with local they just dock up.

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YOU are choosing to fly through LS as a “newbie”…ever think that maybe that is unwise considering you don’t know what you are doing? Or do you just have a natural sense of entitlement that excluded having to learn things?

Yes…as people gain experience, they generally move to LS. NS or WS…as a new player, you don’t realize that it seems.

this game, currently stations in space already makes it super easy for people to move around the map. First cloakers, then intys etc etc. Now Upwell structures are everywhere. The only way to get a fight these days is through choke points. Choke points have been a fact of life for ages (go watch 300 as an example).

Removal or giving people even more ways to avoid PVP is not acceptable. Part of the fun is figuring out how to get around it. Go have fun and stop whining.

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OP
i think that dozens of players here answered you that you are wrong,
Yet you keep on arguing
I suppose that when you drive on the highway against traffic, you think “all the other drivers are fool, they ride the wrong way”

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Speak for yourself. You have been given the many useful tools that help most people to avoid gate camps or pass them successfully with the appropriate ship and skills. Gate camps aren’t killing the game, they’re only killing you. If you don’t understand that places with gate camps aren’t for you until you know how to deal with them then it is your problem and not the fault of game mechanics that are bringing variety and fun.

I have gone through thousands of gatecamps just fine…

As for solving problem 100% of time - keep dreaming, I can always come up with something crazy that will not be solved by anything (100 bombing machs? good luck…)

Quoting myself.
Reading through the posts afterwards just proves me right.
The lies he throws around about “making the game better” are icing on the cake.

That you guys argue with what’s just another asshole not giving a ■■■■ about what you say, or the game, is just sad. Even sadder, though, is that this guy is in TEST. They also take literally everyone nowadays?

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According to zkill this guy isn’t a new player,
so why do you call him a new player?

I thought they always did tbh

And they are one of the worst groups for blobbing and upshipping and if they live in a pipe; camping. Also inane local chat spam… probably explains a lot…

I still don’t know where these camps are either, i mean its a bit late now as i’ve gone alpha and away from game for the second or third time again this year (ikr)

I used to be a fan of TEST, because they were the symbol of autistically hilarious morons who keep shooting each other by accident, because they failed at every level.

TEST alliance, best alliance.

:frowning:

Or play in a group.

Or fly ships / use fits to counter camps.

Or use readily available in game or out of game intel tools.

Or use your initiative in some other way.

I’m assuming you know what initiative is?

Gatecamps are fine, they add a necessary amount of risk and excitement, they take some thought to set up properly, you always risk being jumped by a bigger fish, and there are various means of counter play available.

However.

Unfortunately he’s got a point in that the ease at which this mechanic can be circumvented by multibox scouting is most certainly terrible game design. Every other counterplay requires at least some effort and/or leaves a remaining risk which makes it a tradeoff that you may not always be willing to accept. Multiboxing however beats all of those. Using the phrase HTFU in this context is ridiculous, since multibox scouting is easy mode in every regard. After the initial in-game investment the alt account is even essentially free if you farm the character’s SP (and maybe add a tiny bit of PI on top).

What separates a player with a multibox scout from a player without then is literally just two things: The willingness to play the game in toddler-mode while running (at least) two clients, and a PC setup that can easily pull it off. Good game design? Afraid not.

You can argue that playing multiple accounts always provides an advantage and that’s just part of the game, but most of those advantages come in one of two forms:

  1. As a multiplier for character-capped activities like industry. This scales linearly with the amount of time and effort you are putting into it.

  2. As a slightly less effective alternative to having friends around, for when you simply don’t have friends or they don’t happen to be available at the time.

Multibox scouting stands out towards point one in that it’s not just a multiplier, it let’s you effectively shut down an entire source of in-game risk. And it stands out towards point two because it is a far more effective method than playing with an actual second person. Scouting can be done effectively with any character in a pod or shuttle with no skills whatsoever, and no scout is ever as effective and immediate as one you control yourself. Signing up an actual friend for the job is a huge waste in comparison, as they most certainly could be doing something more useful with their time.

I believe that smarter gate camping mechanics are possible, but of course the answer can’t simply be to destroy them completely. This would require a lot of thought and creativity, and unfortunately it is very likely that any possible improvement in this regard would cut into CCP’s bottom line, as they directly benefit from every scouting alt out there whether you pay by subscription or PLEX. In fact they probably benefit most from “free” SP farmed scouting alts, since somebody needs to pay for the PLEX for both the Omega subscription and the skill extractors.

If I was tasked with improving these mechanics, the first thing I would look at would be how the impact of multibox scouting could be reduced. An angle could be for example to provide better means for gate campers to control when to show themselves, which would make it harder for a multibox scout to provide perfect intel. Maybe it could require some actual scanning to reliably spot the campers, which would also increase the value of actual skilled players providing the scouting in specialised ships.

The ideal outcome IMO would be that gate camping becomes more prevalent again because it’s harder to circumvent it completely as a single player. And due to this prevalence, players would be forced to become more creative in dealing with it. This could include player-run anti-gatecamp patrols (that could perhaps charge a toll fee to travelers for keeping the gates clear), scouts-for-hire, and similar measures which would be available to everyone equally, not just the multiboxers. More interaction, more risk, more conflict, more emergent gameplay.

isnt it an alliance?

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