Gatecamps

I get the feeling you don’t actually do much pvp, gatecamping or scouting for some reason.

Breaking down what your trying to say looks like you think dual boxing a scout is easy?
Make it easier for the campers and more risky for the runner?

I mean bearing in mind the campers are multiboxing scouts of their own often an alpha these days too and have various ship changes to counter anything a person usually brings in a nearby citadel I honestly can’t imagine why someone would call to make it even easier for them to catch people.

TBVH im not sure whether your advocating for more risk for the campers or their intended targets - i think its the targets; which is ludicrous as we all know a well set up camp risks practically nothing at all.

The thing about gatecamps is you don’t have to fly through them. If you just read the context clues; check the map, check killboards, know the terrain, have a cursory knowledge of the local area… they’re not that hard to avoid. No one forces you to fly a slow aligning ship through a non secure gate. If you can’t be bothered to detect gatecamps fly a hecate. There are also several techniques you can use to get through a gatecamp if by some error you end up in one, it’s not always an automatic death.

You really don’t even need a scout to avoid gatecamps, you just need to have some experience with them which usually means dying to a couple. It is thus a right of passage to get caught a couple times. It will make you learn if you’re willing to apply critical thinking to future non secure travel.

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"[Solstice Projekt] :
The quoted carebear shows absolutely no regard for anyone else but himself.

That you guys argue with what’s just another asshole not giving a ■■■■ about what you say, or the game, is just sad."

I fully agree with you. This guy is repeating again and again the same thing whereas almost everybody here answered him that he is wrong

i fully disagree with you: you can escape from gatecamps without multiboxing: skill up to travel ceptors, buy/fly a luxury victorious yacht, or a nullified cloaky t3c, learn the mwd/cloak trick, etc
all these soluces require to level up some skills and earn some isks, and learn how to fit the ships and how to use modules. Which, imo, is exactly “hardening the ■■■■ up”

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He is rirght. There is a gamedesign problem with gatecamps, but that problem isnt what OP is talking about.

First of all gatecamping is important. Gatecamps are something that makes Eve the game we love. But multiboxing happens to be the most obvious and easy counterplay option against gatecamping strategy, but unfortunately it is both suboptimal and less fun than traditional ways to avoid gatecamps. It kinda guides players to the wrong way.

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I don’t use D-scan,

I find the whole system clunky and tiresome.

The game ‘you’ love.

It does absolutely nothing for us high-sec carebears.

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Wow you must be really good at this game!

If it doesn’t effect you, than why are you participating in this discussion?

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You don’t disagree with me, as I never claimed otherwise. Travelceptors and blockade runners is pretty much all I’m flying, and I know that gatecamps generally can’t hurt me. That is not the issue.

The issue is that if you want to fly anything bigger/slower through dangerous space, multiboxing is an easy and essentially free method to gain near-perfect intel before you jump. I believe it is the easiest and most efficient method (in particular more efficient than asking a friend to help with it), which makes it a design flaw in my view. I would love nothing more than to be wrong about this so if anybody thinks I am, than by all means please elaborate.

None of the options mentioned so far appear to be remotely as efficient and easy to do as multibox scouting, and as long as this is something we recommend to players, I maintain that there is room for improvement in the game design. Not necessarily by making it easier or harder to avoid gatecamps (I don’t have a strong opinion on it either way), but by making it more interesting and nuanced.

Having an alt can give you an advantage in almost every activity in the game. So why focus on gatecamps as if they’re the only thing trivialized by multiboxing? It seems like your real issue is with multiboxing, not gatecamps themselves.

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The same in-game situation as if it were players.
CCP treats every in-game capsuleer as a seperate entity.

  • A problem exists only for those who have neither friends, nor alts … in an MMO.
  • Multiboxing works, because characters can not be controlled at the same time “legally”.
  • The chance of ■■■■■■■ up increases over time, because it’s taxing on the mind.
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On whats coming through the gate so you can reship to what you need and never really risk losing a ship camping.

I have, but your seeing this from only one side of the coin. You seem oblivious or ignorant of the fact the campers also use this method; even more so in fact.

I’m guessing the issue here isnt the mechanics of the game, it is just you… probably because YOU want it to be

Theres not much interesting about gatecamps, except maybe the one on the nourv gate - and that literally because often people will come to fight you and its really busy with a lot of stupid folks coming in with no scout… In fact mostly the only people using the method you describe ARE THE CAMPERS THEMSELVES.

The field is even, it should not be changed.

I think multiboxing is a valid concept, as long as it’s a poor man’s alternative to playing with real people.

The problem is that gate scouting is such a trivial activity, that using a real player for it would almost always be a waste compared to multiboxing. That makes it a design flaw IMO, and while there are other areas in the game which are negatively affected by multiboxing, none seem to be quite as significant and ubiquitous as this one.

Mind you I’m not losing any sleep over this. It’s far from ideal IMO and I enjoy discussing it on theoretical grounds, but I don’t see it as a major issue either. I’m sure eventually the game will evolve in this regard as well though, like it has in so many others.

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Only if one of them is Alpha - controlling multiple Omega players is perfectly “legal” in Eve, provided no outside automation aids are used.

I see… I can’t help but disagree though. You see where I live in Stacmon, there is often a gatecamp next door in Ostingele. I attained this knowledge by staying put in the area and gathering intelligence on my own. That intelligence came from the map, killboards (searching by system) and simply flying through the gate a bazillion times.

When I fly through that gate I’m tyically in my travel Dramiel or in a PVP ship, most likely an AF or hecate so I never get caught, it’s a non issue. I say hi to the campers, they often say hi right back. If I want to bring something bigger through to maybe access southern Placid or roam north into black rise or west into syndicate, I can go through the Corvyn gate or one of the other entries and come into Ostingele from the side and avoid the camp.

At the beginning of a play session I check the map (it’s literally the first thing I do when I open my eve clients) and if Ostingele is glowing with kills from the last hour I know to check the killboard. The killboard tells me a few things including: what ships died, and where they died and who they died to. If I see several marked “on the gate to stacmon” I know there’s likely to be a camp. I also know the alliance that lives in Oistingele, I check their killboard daily, and if their kills are happening elsewhere or not at all in recent hours, I know they’re probably not camping at the moment. And if only one or two of them are camping, I’m willing to fight.

Now, I have an alt. He’s a good alt, can fly drams for travel, rattlesnakes, asteros and all sorts of other stuff. I usually have him sitting in a combat probing astero, and I often use him to scout however I rarely even bother using him to check for a gatecamp in ostingele specifically because it’s a waste of time. It’s already so easy for me to apply my knowledge of the area (because I know my neighborhood) and read the obvious context clues to prevent myself from dying. I’d much rather send my alt in a different direction and have him start scanning for wormholes and signatures for me to do stuff with (either complete sites or gank explorers) over the next few hours or however long my play session ends up being. I can simply detect a gatecamp on that gate because I know the area so well and know what goes on, and I have a routine of map checking and killboard checking, so a scout is unnecessary.

I can’t do this for every gate in the game though, I can only detect gatecamps at gates I know and use often, and which I know to be camped often–I have to have a suspicion to begin with. Tama is another good example. Everyone knows Tama gets camped a lot, I don’t jump in there willy nilly.

The only other gatecamp I encounter often and actually die to is the Goonswarm titan camps in the Delve pipe. But the way I see it, I don’t have any right to traverse delve unscathed without exerting effort to do so. It’s not my local neighborhood, I don’t know the people there, and it’s in fact one of the most hostile regions of the game. When visiting that area or similarly defended areas, one is taking a risk. If you go there you do so at your own peril.

So i guess my point is, if you spend any extended period of time in a region, you will not only learn where the gatecamps usually are, you’ll also develop a sort of sixth sense for detecting them and on top of this you’ll have the navigational awareness to find an alternate route. If you go somewhere unfamiliar and you’re flying through in a battlecruiser and happen upon a gatecamp, it is because you are not at home, and you lack the awareness of the area and you did it to yourself. You can’t just go anywhere in any ship and be ok, that just isn’t an option in this game.

Edit: Lastly I wanted to mention that sometimes I do jump into a gatecamp in a cruiser and I have to go with plan Z and try to escape. Here’s what I do:

-Check ship types and try to guess which one is most likely to catch me–thats the one I want to fly away from
-Look at my cloaked ship and see where it’s currently aligned and see if I can simply warp to something
-Decide if I’m going to try to warp out to something my ship is aligned to or burn back to the gate
-In most cases I burn back to the gate. If you’re at a gate with danger on both sides what you do is burn back to the gate but don’t jump. If you get disrupted/scrammed you have to jump. If not you can warp out while sitting on the gate at 0. This leaves you with options. They think you’re going to try to jump out but you don’t unless you have to.
-Sometimes it’s best to burn away from the blob, ie below:

The other day I jumped into ostingele and there was a large camp of 10-20 ships. I was in a stabber that could fly at 3kms no heat so I risked it and overheated and burnt away from the group. They chased me but I was able to pull range and warp out. One of them ended up catching me on a celestial because I was fiddling with my alt who had just decloaked on the same gate, but I didn’t die on the gate. And I even got respect from my assailants after the encounter. They were very friendly and said they were recruiting.

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What I am saying is that there is a delay between the actions,
while actual players operate simultaneously, not sequentially.

In EVE this delay can inflate to seconds, because of the server tick.

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Have you actually tried multi-boxing ? It can go a lot quicker than ‘seconds’, if you lay your windows out sensibly beforehand.

I started to use second acount as a scout at last, which is something that i dont want to do.

Now i will not lose a ship to a meaningless blind gate jump. They should bait me, catch me etc. Which has more sense for pvp.

What i was trying to tell is. Ok if i can do it with two acount. Why not with one?

  • Because otherwise it is easy to kill newer players? or who cannot afford second acount?
  • Because to sell more Plex?
  • Because to show more online player?

I see no sense in these.

New players are easy to kill no matter what. New players probably shouldn’t be expecting to fly into LS without issues anyways.

Then don’t get one. That is a choice, not a need.

Many people have already explained to you how to avoid camps but you rather just cry and blame CCP.

So you are telling people they are playing the game wrong and that your way is the right way…still. 130+ posts in and you haven’t learnt a thing…amazing.

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People often forget about this one. The more alts the more chance to screw things up.

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Have you tried using a Blockade Runner?

Between me and my meemaw we must be working for the Blockade Runner marketting board, there is so little awareness.

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