Getting bumped in a freight highsec should make the bumper flagged

(Ridley Rohan) #326

No need to get your panties in such a twist. Its just ideas and talk.

And once you have untwisted those knickers you might actually read my posts and realize my intention is to create more kaboom type PVP, not less. Maybe a cookie and some warm milk might help?

(Ridley Rohan) #327

Guess what? I am not a big fan of that mechanic for babies. Its not like anyone is actually safe even with full green safety on anyway. A suspect flag is not instant death. And so it seems excessive that such an aggressive or careless act as ramming another ship at high speed won’t even get you that. I can see potential difficulties in formulating the program script because it may be as simple as “green safety means suspect flag is never applied”. But you know, this exception seems possible in general terms.

That said, I can see CCP avoiding it over programming complications alone. Or even some factor where it may send a ripple of exponentially growing data communications between servers. I know they are big on streamlining and simplicity and how MMO nature necessitates that attitude. We fly straight through stars and planets. Yeah. I am sure that made a LOT of things simple on the programming end.

Actually, I can. I have noted over decades of game playing the people who will search tirelessly for any exploit and had to endure them as moderators slept at the wheel. But all you seem to be saying is that game mechanics should never change due to a fear that an exploit will be found. Nothing even gets off the ground with that attitude. It also makes me wonder if you don’t somehow see this a threat to your play style and so want to strangle it in the crib.

Contrarianism itself is also quite a joy.

(Aiko Danuja) #328

Does anybody remember when Ridley lost his mining gnosis? That was funny.

2 Likes
(Solecist Project) #329

The protection button is not meant to actually protect you from others. It is meant to protect you from yourself and acts as a psychological deterrent, making especially new players reconsider what they’re going to do next.

Like, for example, stealing from a jetcan.

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(Aiko Danuja) #330

I still think you should be able to fly your interceptor into the freighter at high speed and cause a mixture of kinetic and thermal damage.

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(Nicolai Serkanner) #331

Banzai!

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(Karak Terrel) #332

Yes obviously, but things like stealing from a jetcan or shooting a MTU is something the game can actively block and that is why the safety button works. You simply can’t shoot the MTO or steal if it is on green.

With bumping that would not be possible and I don’t think they would want to make you slide trough other ships if the safety is on green or force-steer you around them. What the carebears ask for in essence is that you can go suspect with safety on green which would make that whole button useless.

I don’t say this would be a bad thing. I would welcome it. I just don’t think the carebears would like that very much despite them asking for it.

(Jonah Gravenstein) #333

They should be careful what they wish for, they just might get it.

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(Demerius Xenocratus) #334

I don’t own a freighter nor do I want highsec to be 100% safe. However, aggression-free tackle has always struck me as something that should not be in the game.

Practical issues in fixing it aside, it’s against the principles of eve to be able to, in essence, permanently warp disrupt a capital ship from behind Concord protection.

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(Aiko Danuja) #335

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don’t have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

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(Solecist Project) #336

Which principle would that be?

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(NotTheSmartestCookie) #337

You forget that there are usually several steps where a player can already mitigate the risk before being bumped:

  • Pay someone else to haul (possibly mining/ratting/missioning in the additional free time to compensate for the minor costs)
  • Use a DST instead of a freighter and fit a MJD
  • Reduce the amount and value of cargo in the freighter allowing for a better tank and making it less of an attractive target
  • Don’t auto-pilot, bring a webbing alt or friend
  • Read intel channels or consult the EVE map on active gank fleets

Even after being bumped a player can still try to bring friends to extract him for the danger, or try paying a ransom.

Finally, have a look at https://zkillboard.com/kills/ganked/ and you will notice that freighter kills are actually not very common. The vast majority of the anti-bumping/ganking posts are endless repeats by a few whiners, who think if they repeat a lie often enough people will believe it.

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(Dracvlad) #338

Seriously? And what are they supposed to do exactly, and where do you find such friends? please go into detail here.

People honour ransoms? I don’t think so!

Many people do indeed do this and put collateral of 125% on the items.

Already do that however what about loads which are too big, as for the MJD I prefer the cloak and MWD.

Empty freighters get ganked so your advice here is worthless.

People who don’t AP get ganked, also a webber can be countered with a suicide point, but where is the counter to bumping?

So when you see a Macherial reported on a gate just dock up and log, that is the only thing that currently matters.

Your players have got bored of this farming.

So what is the lie about this?

That is the issue so directly detailed by the poster you replied to, but let me say that you whining about people pointing it out is highly amusing and pathetic.

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(NotTheSmartestCookie) #339

Reading comprehension is a thing. I guess you have been so conditioned on any post about ganking that you automatically disregard the post and start frothing at the mouth.

I’m not saying taking those measures will avoid all ganks; it will vastly reduce the already very low risk of being ganked in a freighter. Look at last weekend: for 27/28 April zkill lists a vast total of 2 freighters that were ganked. Most players have taken the advice to heart: don’t be a loot pinata.

It would be hilariously easy for ag to counterbump a freighter if they would be willing to actually make some effort. As it is they sit in station or mine somewhere while complaining that ganking is impossible to stop and that it is unacceptable that players may have to work together in a MMO.

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(Solecist Project) #340

Where do other people find friends? What kind of question is this? You have friends, you know how this works. Those who don’t have to blame themselves for their bad choices. It’s not anyone elses problem but their own.

I honour ransoms. The Tuskers honour ransoms. Lots of pirate groups in my younger days honoured their ransoms and I’m sure many still do, but we don’t get to hear about them for obvious reasons. Everyone who isn’t a simpleton understands that not honouring ransoms is bad for business. Only short sighted anti-social assholes, who don’t give a ■■■■ about other pirates, don’t honour their ransoms.

It’s not unreasonable to simply do the trip twice, or more often, if it’s too dangerous to do it in one. No, that’s literally the smart thing to do.

Basing your response to his words on this kind of generalisation is invalid. While they absolutely do die too, it doesn’t mean they die more than those filled with goods. Just because some things don’t work sometimes doesn’t mean it’s worthless to suggest something that sometimes gets you killed.

No, freighter ganking never was actually common. Common being the keyword here. If it had been common then far more people would have been doing it.

The reason why freighter bumping is, in general, a non-issue is because it’s so rare (relative to the amount of population getting ganked) that those who complain about it have no ground to speak on. Even CCP doesn’t give a flying ■■■■ about it, because they know it’s a non-issue. The only reason they care about bumping is because of people getting stuck in collision boxes.

See, this is why people call you a white knight. You’re “standing up” for people who deserve what they’re getting, as if they were victims that didn’t make bad decisions. Bad decisions being the keywords here. Everyone’s a ■■■■■■■ victim, apparently, and no one ever makes a “bad decision”.

Does that mean that bumping someone for over an hour, when he’s atk, isn’t kind of ■■■■■■ up? No, it doesn’t. It is kind of ■■■■■■ up. Still doesn’t change that no one who matters gives a ■■■■ about it and that those who whine about getting bumptackled in general can only blame themselves for it.

Not even touching on all of those who complain about it only because they’re virtue-signalling assholes, who declare everyone a victim by default so they have something to scream about to look good for others white knights.

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(Dracvlad) #341

“Such friends”, this is a specific question in terms of what you need to end a bump, in reality one needs two to three characters that are willing and able to gank and those people do not grow on trees which is what makes such a throw away comment by NotTheSmartestCookie rather inane.

When I first started playing as Dracvlad I saw that ransoms were honoured over the years as people became more intense and angry that respect to honour their word in terms of people they despise largely ended. I am glad to see that you honour them, many do not. I assume that most do not.

If you can spit it into smaller parts, but if you cannot?

Obviously if I stick 20bn in a freighter I will more likely get ganked.

There are multiple accounts to be run and paid for, it takes a lot of effort and with the increase in cost of plex it becomes more of a grind, I noted Australian Excellence was having trouble to get interested for anything other than a JF and people were not giving him easy kills. He got bored, it was Farmville…

I have detailed my issue with bumping so many times and it is an issue in that it causes so much fear and blockage. I am happy with freighter ganking without bumping. Please note that my issue is with bumping, not with freighter ganking, though many gankers seem to mix the two.

You call me a white knight because I feel that bumping is over-powered and not in the spirit of Eve which was nailed by Demerius. The bad decision is down to one thing the decision not to dock up and log off when you hear word of a bumper on a gate.

It does not matter if AFK or ATK same result if solo. And in fact during the last town hall I found out that CCP are thinking about it and I am happy about that.

Do you really think that I am a white knight because I find bumping a poor mechanic, seriously…

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(Solecist Project) #342

Nonononono. No! It does not need two or three characters. FIRST and foremost it requires ONE friend who webs you into warp! That’s the number one thing a freighter pilot should have! You can not claim that every single freighter pilot, who got bumped and ganked, could not have potentially been saved by having a webbing friend.

You can claim that some freighter pilots could not be saved by their webbing friend, but you can not claim that all could not be saved, which means that one does not need two or three friends to survive a freighter gank.

Watch out that you don’t mislead yourself. It’s not the same people who got more intense and angry, it’s new people who already were more intense and angry, who didn’t give a ■■■■ about their own words and promises. Literal assholes.

Fair! Then you can still pay others! Red Frog’s tendency to not die is quite … normal, actually. The vast majority of freighter pilots don’t explode!

What’s the problem here?

Yeah and they deserve it. People overfilling their freighters aren’t the norm, though.

Yeap. Still, people complain about a non-issue affecting only a small subgroup of people (those who get bumped) in the group of people who fly freighters, who in general do not get ganked. It is really problematic that everyone is always only looking at the victims, ignoring the 99% who aren’t victims.

It is a ■■■■■■ up and dangerous way of looking at the world. It ends up with everyone, eventually, being a victim by default because everyone has to live with changes done in the name of “victims”, while actual victims usually get shoved under a bus.

No. I call you a white knight, because you’re virtue-signalling. I call you a white knight because you declare that there exist victims (who, for some reason, don’t post in masses on the forums) who deserve to be protected.

They don’t.

They don’t, because the amount of people affected is insignificant by any means whatsoever. It is absolutely unreasonalbe and unacceptable that things are required to change for everyone because of a tiny amount of people! It is further absolutely unacceptable that people cry out for others they themselves declared victims! Declaring people victims by default, directly or indirectly, makes you a bad person!

Where are all those victims? Where are their threads? Why is there no actual outcry about this at all? Why hasn’t there ever been, except by a few assholes who tried to make it look like an issue?

They only exist in your heads!
That’s where they are!

The vast majority of freighter pilots don’t give a ■■■■, otherwise we would be well aware of it! The vast majority of freighter pilots do not get bumped or ganked at all, otherwise we would be well aware of it! The vast majority of freighter pilots aren’t victims, self declared or by assholes and absolutely do not deserve that CCP changes things for the worst of their group of people!

How do you think did Humanity actually got this far? I’ll give you a hint:

Humanity did not get this far by constantly centering everything around its weakest/stupidest/most ignorant. Humanity did not get this far by changing the rules for everyone around the requirements of the least capable, the worst and the unluckiest.

On the contrary!

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(Aiko Danuja) #343

Well, you don’t personally have a lot of options, but you can still come gank with us, and then maybe we’ll be friends enough that I decide to help you haul a boatload of garbage across the galaxy for less than minimum wage. I generally charge my friends a hundred million isk per trip, and then I make sure they don’t get ganked.

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(Demerius Xenocratus) #344

Risk/reward. I’m not arguing that ganking is somehow unfair or that it isn’t relatively easy to avoid. I’m simply saying that it doesn’t make sense to be able to permatackle a neutral ship in hisec with no consequences. I don’t know how to fix this mechanically, but you’re basically applying a warp disruptor to the target without having to deal with any of the consequences that would normally entail.

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(Solecist Project) #345

You’re right. It doesn’t make sense to be able to permatackle a neutral ship without consequences.
There should be a button which notifies people in the area, who are willing to come and help.
Like a Neighbourhood watch.

1 Like