Horrible Economy, why?


(Ash Beldrulf) #1

I have been going through Eve-Industry.org and looking up the cost to manufacture items. I have modified the cost of the mineral to the fair market prices from eve-central.com. I have not found one item that is making a profit other then capital class ships! Most items are losing 10%-40% at the current market prices. Why is the economy so very bad in this game?


(ITTigerClawIK) #2

Are you taking item blueprint research into account?


(Tipa Riot) #3

Actually atm a lot of basic T2 modules and rigs are profitable on a level not seen for a year, even under sub-optimal conditions, e.g. NPC station.

Example: Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints II


(Blade Darth) #4

It is a very good simulation. And like in real life economy there is bubbles and market manipulation. Atm. the market might be responding to the war and upcoming structure patch. There is also the summer/winter cycle.
It takes sometimes months if not years to make profit.


(Ash Beldrulf) #5

But in real life no one would sell goods at a 10-40% loss. The market is flooded with items that are making no isk and losing isk like no tomorrow. No one manufactures items to lose money unless it is for tax reasons and Eve has no tax deductions. I can not help but wonder how long this in game economy has been none profitable?


(Ash Beldrulf) #6

Tipa Riot
1h

Actually atm a lot of basic T2 modules and rigs are profitable on a level not seen for a year, even under sub-optimal conditions, e.g. NPC station.

Example: Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints II

If you look at Eve Central, the Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints II is being sold for below the Eve industry price, which make the profit even smaller but it is one item that is turning a profit.


(Algarion Getz) #7

The overpowered Rorquals have flooded the game with cheap minerals. A large part of the minerals doesnt go to the market, but straight into production. As a small indy player you simply cant compete with the big players, who multibox Rorquals and mine minerals worth serveral billions per hour.


(Blade Darth) #8

Ofc. they do. Console market is one example. And cases where a company uses dumping strategy to weed out competition and than raise prices dramatically.

As guy above me mentioned Rorqs and “gun mining” is one reason. As for “no profit”… i’d argue… if someone stocked up on parts at 30% price last year, before a patch or something, hes making profit building out of the stockpile even thou current part prices vary. It takes time to chew trough stockpiles.


(Cade Windstalker) #9

Never?

You’re not taking blueprint research, Citadel rigs, and the fact that most industry people buy their minerals through buy orders rather than buying them off of sell orders.

There are some T1 items that aren’t profitable, or occasionally dip into unprofitable territory, but that’s because T1 manufacturing is really easy to get into and for small items like Frigates some newbies treat the minerals they mine as “free” when selling and will drop their price into the red. This is very much the exception rather than the rule though.


(Tipa Riot) #10

Check your numbers, based on eve-industry standard values and Jita sell prices you can make >100% profit with these rigs, and this is by far not the optimal setup. Even T1 rigs are profitable.

Also keep in mind that often T1 stuff is not profitable because they are not manufactured but looted. If you sell loot everything above 0 ISK makes you profit.


(Ima Wreckyou) #11

Obviously some people are better than you at industry so that is why they can produce so cheap that you have to put in some serious effort to compete with them. Something you would expect if the market works correctly.

Why did you think the market is to blame and not your understanding of the situation (thread title)?


(Crimson Draufgange) #12

I blame it all on the Russians over in the dronelands. They’ve been carebearing to their hearts content for years with no major conflict to stop them.


(Neuntausend) #13

While there are people that sell at a loss for no good reason (“minerals I mine are free”), most people don’t. There may also be reasons for willingly producing at a (on paper) loss. I could imagine that it may be easier to haul some items than the raw ore, if you produce in nullsec for example. Not sure, though.

If you’ve calculated 10-40% loss for most items, I reckon you overlooked something. Like others have pointed out, researching blueprints for material efficiency and fitting your EC with the proper rigs for what you are building will certainly help. Also, always assume all fives for trading skills, as that is what everyone has to compete with.

fake edit: Another factor is the “used market” or indeed “gun mining”. Players who are not into industry may sell modules they have looted, or that they bought at some point and don’t need anymore below manufacturing cost, because they simply don’t care. They have the stuff lying around and want to get rid of it. That’s usually not the bulk, though, but those few low-volume sell orders at the top of the list in Jita.


(yellow parasol) #14

what about all those who don’t understand that minerals they mine aren’t free and keep dumping stuff onto the market below prpsuction production cost? i bet there are many and many of these probably aren’t new players anymore.

oh, that’s already been covered. missed it. my bad. :slight_smile:


(Neuntausend) #15

They exist, and they certainly have some effect. But like the gun miners I’m fairly sure they don’t make up enough volume to actually destroy the economy. An experienced trader knows to ignore the small fry trying to undercut them and will just put the sell order up for a big number of whichever item they are selling for 3 months and leave it there. It will sell out eventually.


(Gregorius Goldstein) #16
  • “Fair market prices”? Most industrialists build from buyorders or corp/alliance buyback. Also don’t buy the minerals and buy compressed ore instead. Also build up stacks when prices are low, those stations have no storage limit.

  • Don’t build from unresearched blueprints; build from 10/20 or 8/16 blueprint copies

  • Don’t build in systems with high production index and use low tax/high bonus citadels when possible

  • Don’t do it on your own, most things in EVE are teamwork

  • I just checked the next best T1 blueprint with no meta version dropping I remembered: The small tractor beam I would net me 240k almost passive ISK per hour when I would buy the ore needed from the hub I do business at and build them 4 jumps out. Not enough to get me started but for someone else that margin is good and so the prices are as they are now.


(Bjorn Tyrson) #17

Its called Loss leading. Particularly in null-sec markets. if someone sees a ship on the market with say a 5-10% markup over jita, then they are likely to just go and do all of their shopping there and ship everything in.
but if they see the hull for 1-2% under jita price, they will probably buy it there, and be much more willing to spend the extra 5-10% markup on the mods they need on the spot. which more than covers the loss taken on the hull.

That is the most obvious example of it, but the same principle is part of why ships tend to have smaller margins than their modules. you don’t sell the hull to make money, you sell the hull in order to sell them the modules that make you the money.


(Rowdy Ronny) #18

Well, then rethink your economical strategy. I’m producing and not loosing. Why don’t you try a little? Or should CCP just change it and make NPC “Fair Trade” buy and sell agents?


(Bjorn Tyrson) #19

I think they call that the “reprocess” button.


(Max Deveron) #20

Economy is not actually bad.
And not to start an argument again on what is free or what not…

But quit buying mineral on sell or buy orders and your profits will soar.

Mission running? Using cruise missiles? T1 non-factions work just as well as Faction or T2 for killing rats, and you can melt down rat loot and build those missiles as cheap as 4 Isk per missile as opposed to buying them at 100 ISK or more on the market.

Industry/Mining, 100 T1 destroyers cost as little as 5 million Isk to make in an NPC station with approx 2-3 hrs of mining/gathering and sell for 80 - 100 million ISK in gross.

Attack Battlecruisers: Naga, Talos, Tornado, Oracle: can cost as little 15-32 million ISK per ship in batches of 10 if you mine/gather stuff yourself and sell at minimum 50-65 million each.

Battleships: all of the non faction T1’s cost as little as 130-200 million for 10 of them…they sell for in that price range for each ship.

Once you figure out a formulae especially with knowing the above, you can even get away with buying ore at higher than Jita buy orders, sometimes even the sell orders, but mostly in between
from others(instead of them taking it to market), and still make a 40%-60% profit margin off the stuff you build.