How and why did the Jove go extinct? ( + other Jove lore & Tinfoil Hat Zone)

[DrysonBennington]

Perhaps the Kyonoke Outbreak is due to the Jovian disease evolving into something new.

Kyonoke Outbreak Containment Site

[Quelza]

On what do you base this speculation? The Jovian Disease is genetic, whereas the Kyonoke Plague agent is a dormant “biological speck” found in an asteroid.

[Makoto_Priano]

The ‘biological speck’ thing doesn’t really make a tremendous amount of sense from a scientific standpoint. My guess is that the writer intended for the Kyonoke Plague to seem like a sort of Andromeda Strain-like superdisease, creepy because it was an out-of-context problem.

That said, there are implications that the Jovian Disease may have been far more deadly at one point, and that while it’s genetic in nature, it isn’t easily managed by Jovian biological sciences, which have always been said to be vastly more advanced than what’s found in New Eden.

So, all said, it’s sort of a black box from a lore standpoint, a plot mechanic that we can’t really ‘figure out’ because some elements are difficult at best to reconcile.

[Quelza]

Fair enough. I had assumed at the time the original Kyonoke Pit chronicle was written that the writer(s) didn’t have a solid grasp on the science behind prions, protein misfolding and aggregation, and BSE. “Biological speck” sounds like something you’d hear in SyFy channel B-movie dialogue. You’d think after a FanFest LARP event to find a “cure” for the Plague we’d have a more solid in-universe explanation of what Kyonoke is and perhaps some clues as to its origins.

Hm…now I kind of feel like revisiting The Andromeda Strain.

[Jandice_Ymladris]

How and why did the Jove go extinct? ( + other Jove lore & Tinfoil Hat Zone)

Unless they weren’t necessarily fleeing from the Disease, so much as from W477-P and any impending Directorate collapse. Either way, though, given that the Jove disease has a biological component, they can continue to ‘live’ while in cryostasis, Sleeper-style. Indeed, if I’m recalling Templar One properly, that invitation was extended by the Sleepers to the second empire Jove, and was one of the reasons why the Sleepers were suspected of having engineered the disease. As for the disease itself…

On the Genetic origin of the disease, wasn’t it a result of over-engineering of their genetics, rather then a true disease? So it is rather hard to fix without undoing some / much of their work?

[Teinyhr]

@Jandice_Ymladris

On the Genetic origin of the disease, wasn’t it a result of over-engineering of their genetics, rather then a true disease? So it is rather hard to fix without undoing some / much of their work?

That is the explanation they’ve given to the rest of humanity, but the truth might be far more sinister, and Jove are experts of information warfare so anything they’ve told about themselves publicly should be treated with a healthy dose of suspicion.

[Jandice_Ymladris]

Thanks for the quick response!
And it does make sense, the info gathered during the early days of the Drifter appearance, involving the retrieval of all that Jove observation data does imply their love for infomation & their (mis)use of it indeed.

[Dark_Engraver]

By the time we get to jove space Kuvakei’s minions would have striped down every station,ship,facility.Remember around the start of the sansha incursions they leaked a few images of sansha ships near a jove station

[Jandice_Ymladris]

And the Jove kicked them back out. It is the last large Jove action we know of. It took time for the Jove to muster their counter-offensive, likely because they’re with so few.

But yes, the Jovian low activity is very likely why Sansha could go in there once they found a way, establish a (temporary) presence & likely ransack their station(s) for technologies & knowledge.

[Teinyhr]

It was pointed out earlier that the “nanorot” mentioned in the Inheritance -chronicle will likely be the official explanation for Jove space being empty of Jove stations and other technology (though I’m sure explorers will find valuable caches in deadspace) - if or when Jove space is opened up.

And, correct me if I’m wrong those more familiar with Jove lore, but the Inheritance -chronicle is signifigant treasure trove in the sense that it is “insider knowledge” in regards to the Jove - unfiltered, mostly, though I have a feeling that Veniel still had some information he did not share with Mentor Raish. Whereas most everything else we know about the Jove should be considered to some extent fabrication by the Jove themselves.

[Makoto_Priano]

Absolutely a treasure trove!

So far as Jove lore goes, the trifecta is Inheritance, Templar One (say what you will of TonyG, there’s a Sleeper lore dump), and Theodicy.

The issue is that all of these are essentially from unreliable narrators. I was quizzing CCP DelegateZero on Inheritance at a Fanfest, and while he mostly played coy and laughed at me, he did reply to one of my, “So, per Inheritance, we now know X,” comments with, “Remember, this is from the perspective of the Jove.”

So, remember that while it’s a treasure trove, it isn’t like we’ve found writ of god. Even the Emergent Threats trailer is very specifically all player voices; while highly suggestive, it’s still not writ of god, but putting theories and mystery to video.

[Quelza]

You know, after mentioning Theodicy…

I wonder if CCP have any plans to bring back the concept of the Enheduanni/The Order, perhaps underlying Raish’s immediate interest in Upwell after taking the old Jove Directorate seat of the Inner Circle.

Man I really need to dive back into some of the old lore.

[Teinyhr]

@Quelza

I wonder if CCP have any plans to bring back the concept of the Enheduanni/The Order, perhaps underlying Raish’s immediate interest in Upwell after taking the old Jove Directorate seat of the Inner Circle.

Considering CCP seems to be exterminating most of TonyG’s lore influence - and AFAIK Enheduanni are TonyG’s invention - I doubt that. Anythings possible, though.

[Ibrahim_Tash-Murkon]

The moral of the story is that when you’re meddling with your genome always use version control and properly document everything.

[Zyal_Oskold]

Is the old lore captured on way back machine?

[Sibylla_Aldanar]

@Teinyhr

I don’t have a source for this, but I recall someone once dumping Jove bloodline info on one of the older forums - probably from the time when they were still intended to be a playable race, that Jove are potentially very long lived, with rumors that some can be over a thousand years old. In light of that, 500 years sounds feasible if the Disease doesn’t get them first.

Edit: Many of the jove bloodlines, though I’m not sure where they are sourced from:

Jove and Genetic Manipulation - EVE Fiction - EVE Online Forums

This information is taken from the EVE: Source book, a treasure trove of EVE lore.

@Teinyhr

This is actually a very good and interesting point. The Jove Motherships weren’t mentioned in the chronicle, and from somewhere I remember reading that despite being millennia old (possibly from the age of the EVE Gate collapse even?) they were still being maintained and upgraded by the Jove. Still, trying to escape the Disease didn’t exactly work the last time, and sounds pretty moronic. You can’t escape a genetic disease by leaving people who exhibit it behind, especially if you’re basically clones of those people anyway.

As far as I know there are two, unrelated groups of motherships from different points in Jovian history. The seven motherships (each of which had twelve circular subsections that looked like Sleeper enclaves from Anoikis) mentioned in Templar One that carried the Architects and the Enheduanni to Utopia Prime (Utopia III) simply served as stargate-builder colony ships and nothing else is said of them once they arrived at their destination. The three Jovian Motherships that most people know of were built shortly after the founding of the Third Jovian Empire, which the Jovians used to ferry their remaining healthy population from Curse to their new home in J7HZ-F and A821-A.

[Teinyhr]

@Sibylla_Aldanar

This information is taken from the EVE: Source book, a treasure trove of EVE lore.

Can’t be, because the forum posts are timestamped at 2012 and EVE: Source is from 2014.

Edit: And yes, I did say on the other thread that I mixed up few lore tidbits in my mind.

[Umbre_Fallenstar]

to be more exact on the jove disease, in EvE source it is said that the embryon-form of the disease is, and I quote,

statically rarer
the jove disease being 100% lethal (as far as we know) even if the embryon death rate is about 99%, the statement is still true ^^