How do the Empire Navies, as a whole, compare to each other?

(Dornier Pfeil) #1

Preface note: I couldn’t decide what heading this belonged under, like say-Fiction, so I will let TPTB move it if they see fit to.

Capsuleers can customize and mold their ships and fleets as they like with a huge amount of freedom. An FC can fly a pirate battleship core fleet, screened by Minnie destroyers, supported by Gallente tackle, Amarrian logistics, Caldari electronic warfare, and all those ships can have whatever fittings are deemed necessary to the endeavor. Empire ship captains and fleet admirals don’t have the same freedom. They have to take what their, always cash-strapped, governments are willing to give them and in accordance with the established doctrines. Add to that, what self-respecting, proud national would be caught dead in an ENEMY’S ship?

That makes me wonder if the ships and fleets are really capable of doing what the lore claims they are. Did the Minmatar really throw off Amarrian despotism with the ships they have (albeit, taking into account the Jovian destruction of the Amar expeditionary fleet)? Did the Caldari really bring the Gallente invasion to a halt using the ships and doctrines they have? Do the different racial flavors so well and truly balance against each other such that the current military/political stalemate is the, perforce, natural state of things?

There are so many negative topic threads in these new forums I wanted to write a fun topic as my first.

(Lady Ayeipsia) #2

Apart from weapon type, ewar, and tank type many navy ships seem to possess similar equipment. For example, though webs ate Minmitar, apple groups use them. The same is true of warp disruptors, prop mods, etc.

Think of it like this… What’s the difference between a Soviet made AK 47, a Russian made one, a Chinese knock off, an African version… They may have quality differences but they are all still about the same. In the end, the navies have subtle differences but it amounts to the being about the same.

(DeMichael Crimson) #3

Hello and welcome to Eve.

Capsuleers are a special breed of human-beings, especially when compared to the average populace within the Eve Universe. Capsuleers are basically ‘Gods Among Men’.

As for the Lore aspect of Eve, I recently checked into it and posted my understanding of it here and here.

The creation of Concord who designated specific systems for Factional Warfare is the reason for the balance stalemate between the 4 main Factions.

Topics about Eve Lore are always fun and engaging, especially since the Lore is constantly being updated or redefined. Anyway, I hope you have a long and rewarding career here in Eve.

(Ibrahim Tash-Murkon) #4

Just some background to aid the topic - CCP Falcon on Empire Navies

(Samira Kernher) #5

The fleets were capable of doing as the lore states they did. The ships and technology has come a long way as the years have passed, however, and what was flown then is not necessarily what is flown now, even if some of the ship designs are similar. Stuff gets upgraded and retrofitted over time. Note, for example, how Amarr armageddons posted at stargates still use lasers, while new ones built today are designed as neut/missile/drone boats.

What the current state is, however, is not an organic stalemate. In the current time, equipment is mandated to be shared between every faction. It is a CONCORD regulation to prevent any single empire from becoming more powerful than another by basically destroying any notion of an arms race. This explains why ships between the factions are rather balanced between each other in the EVE of today. The stalemate is one that is forced by an external power.

But you can still see the lore influence on tech trees. Amarr’s choice of tracking disruptors and neutralizers, ewar that works best against Amarr ships, shows that they are most prepared for fighting other Amarr, due to having no real external military threat until relatively recently in their history (the Khanid Kingdom, which outright rebelled, uses cruors even. It’s always been my opinion that blood raider tech was actually designed first by the Kingdom to use against the Amarr Empire during their rebellion, and was only later sold to the blood raiders). Minmatar ships meanwhile are designed to be speedy and have limited reliance on capacitor, negating the effects of neuts and reducing the power of lasers due to their poor tracking. Minmatar missile ships negate Amarr tracking disruptors. In Gallente/Caldari tech, the shared use of hybrids shows the common roots, and the ewar again shows how the tactics developed. Caldari use ecm and long range missiles and railguns (as well as fighter deployments, in lore), which shows an intent to negate the superior numbers of gallente from effectively counterattacking. These tactics then prompted Gallente development of drones and damps, enabling the ability to attack even under ECM (and to fend off fighter craft) and to force missile/railgun ships to engage at closer ranges.

And then comes tech II ships, which have resistance profiles designed to counter the enemy faction. While CONCORD rules require the sharing of technology, even in this current equalized setting it’s clear that the factions are still attempting to develop their technology in ways that counter what the enemy can do.

As for the ability for capsuleers to customize and mold their ships so freely? I consider this to be one of the big reasons why capsuleers have become such a force in the cluster. Certainly the superior piloting ability and cloning is useful, but the reduced crew requirements enable ships to be built with modularity in mind. Capsuleers are absolutely supposed to be more capable than any traditional fleet, because capsuleers are the next step in the evolution of warfare. Compare it to the real world’s drifting away from large, pitched battles between armies to small scale, high tech unconventional warfare. Capsuleers still have large battles between massive fleets, but modern technology makes it essential that you can adapt on the fly to changing situations. The empires have the capability to a point, and have their own capsuleers, but it’s becoming very clear that traditional tactics and fleet compositions just don’t work in the modern era. The empires outright admit this in the force auxiliary descriptions. Traditional bridge captains and static, unmodular ship designs are getting left behind in favor of newer or retrofitted designs piloted by capsuleers.

As for the ship factions? I think this has more to do with the lack of a real ongoing war than anything else. I expect that if a real war between the empires broke out, they’d start developing their own ships that make use of technologies from other factions. There’s just no real need for it right now. That’s the big difference between independent capsuleers and the empires. Capsuleers make use of a hodge podge of tech from the various factions, but they don’t make their own. The empires however are able to do research and development and create their own new designs. If a real war broke out, you’d see local factional ships designed to use whatever tech was most useful for fighting the enemy, instead of just grabbing another faction’s ship.

(Este DeStirr) #6

Great drawing out of the threads between the empires, factions, and relationships involved. Thanks!

(system) #7

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