How does your society view the concept of honour?

I grew up within the New Halaima Code of Conduct - a group lead by the capusleers of CODE. and the charismatic leadership of James315. I know it would shock most of you for me to say but honour was always the most important aspect of their society.

Have you forgotten already, Onii-chan? :smile_cat:
Hee. I’m afraid I no longer feel like the right person to remind you. The State likely views me as a traitor or a dissident or a coward or a fool or scum, or maybe all of those. And if it does not, then maybe it should.

…That is a good question actually, I haven’t really thought about that. I guess for me, integrity is a major component and loyalty as well…but…
…I don’t know…I’ll have to think about it some more…

There is a fine line between honor and foolishness.

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Live by the sword, trip and fall on your sword, die by the sword.

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There is a good question though:
Do honorable people really need an approval?
Why would someone look into the mirror, looking for approval for self, or to look for approval from others? Did they do something that they need a justification for?
I have that concept, that I feel that if I will need to justify for myself some of my action, that would mean that this action was in fact questionable.

What I feel the great difference between Honorable people and dishonorable is that when Honorable one commits something questionable, they take amends, they bring apologies, they repair the damage or they take their own life - to show that they believe their chose was right, but on the other hand it was wrong. Dishonorable people in contrast will start making justifications and proving that what they did was right - mostly to themselves. They will need approval, and mostly from themselves. They will try to convince themselves they did nothing wrong, while they will still feel something they did wasn’t exactly right.

I have a good story for this. Imagine you have three warring lands, and two warlords made an agreement that they stay together to defeat the third. Once the battle was coming to the end, one of the warlords gives his lieutenants order to attack those whom they made a pact with while they still were on the battlefield - a perfect opportunity to end all these wars! One of the lieutenants draws his sword and immediately beheads his lord!
Others understand that their warlord was about to dishonor them all, so they suggest the lieutenant who killed him to take his position, because he should be more honorable and understands what is right or wrong.
Instead, he offers them to choose a new leader and demonstratively kills himself in front of them all.

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Diana,

Q. 1. Do honorable people really need approval?
No, honorable people should need not seek approval as what is honorable is already considered by most a just, moral, and ethical actions. When people start committing actions that society or community would question then the person may be swerving away on their own egotistical behavior and may be suffering their own narcissism and visions of their own honor and grandeur. Which again is in the mind of the individual.

Q. 2. Ohh i love this story. It is the heart of the eternal warrior. One must always serve. It is not the place of the warrior to question one’s master or place. Yet, in this story we see a dishonorable action of killing one’s master for the greater good of an honorable community. Him taking his life gives him honor. Knowing full well he committed an unspeakable action in his death he redeems his honor. What many would say…yet this was a personal decision made upon by the warrior.
He was not forced. So again the man in order to regain his honor kills himself. While the community wanted him to be the new leader. So he didnt agree with what the rest of his society claimed was honorable. He could not accept this and knew of his own disgraceful behavior and his sin and dishonor. So, he could not continue to live even if the community accepted him. The man in the mirror looks beyond every lie and falsehood. While a warrior can fool the world the warrior cannot fool the man in the mirror. Thus, in the warriors actions he/she may come before their god with no shame awaiting judgement.

Which brings us back to honor being an individual affair. The lord was making a dishonorable decision by attacking the other group. The path to damnation is paved in good intentions. It is always the individual. Many of us have heard of CODE. I have heard every swear word that would make many Gallente blush about them. Yet, from their own mouths they believe in honor. See…people seek out honor as an individual affair and usually they do so in the graces of what is “honorable” in the society and or what the community commonly accepts and “good behavior.”

Best Regards my old friend Diana.

Paladin Warden Kyle Saltz.

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Something we have and the Minmatar do not.

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Being a Cadari born citizen I view honor as how successful a business person is. This can be the amount of ISK one has, victory through lucrative business deals, and strategic defeat of the enemies of the state and competitors. Honor can be gained without firing a single shot and with words/contracts alone.

That’s how I view honor.

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  1. Asking oneself what it means to be a part of one’s people, and learning this from one’s family and teachers.
  2. Living one’s life according to one’s people’s way.
  3. Passing one’s way on to one’s children.
  4. Contributing to making the future a better place for them and others in the present.
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Well, you show up with your workout partner at the designated time. No excuses. You encourage your partner to push themselves. When you spot, you pay attention and you let them struggle through the lift offering just enough assistance to prevent themselves from hurting themselves. You speak encouraging words to one another and build each other up. You listen when they are dealing with struggles.

You don’t shame other people. You don’t make fun of them. Everyone there in the gym is a family member. Help and encourage each other.

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Service to God’s law is the definition of honour.

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Can you extrapolate on that.

My grandfather taught me that honor is an evil word used by the strong to make sure the weak can’t fight back. Was it honorable when he sabotaged his overseer’s oxygen tank? No. But it got him and the other slaves in the crew to freedom.

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Without knowing more of the specifics, I can only say: It might well have been.

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So, what he did was honorable to the slaves he saved, but by your definition, evil towards the slaver?

There are times such that even honor is a luxury, they say.

I’ve heard it said many times but only recently really understood.

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Not evil. But by many definitions, dishonorable. And pretty distasteful. He mixed in caustic chemicals with some cheap drugs so the overseer wouldn’t notice the pain in his lungs until it was too late. It also kept him high enough that he didn’t notice everything else the slaves were doing. He did it so that if they got caught, he could try and pass the death off as a tragic accident. It gave them a way to abort if they had to. It also meant that the overseer died a slow and painful death.

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My own code, such as it is, would just call that necessary. Sometimes duty requires you to hurt someone. Of course, you can excuse a lot with “necessity,” including perhaps some things that oughtn’t be excused, but even so.

Like Mr. Thorne I come from a culture that has different expectations of “honor” from different people. The soldier and the baker do not face the same duty, nor the duelist and the spy.

If it is your right place to do what must be done, you do it.

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And there is honor, too, in rising to the necessity when it finds you.

Sounds like one of those times, to me.