I generally agree. …I don’t know about overheating and some of the other features, but the new design is far too much even in basic elements. “We don’t want it to be too big” (makes “health” dummy thicc, in the worst way possible). Too radical of a change, losing some of it’s purpose.
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My huge objection is screen space. This is going to eat into a lot more of the lower right screen… where I have cargo permanently displayed. They are clearly just not thinking about all the other windows that sensible players need to have open all the time. In my case, inventory. Others may want lots of chat. Others will have D-scan. Etc, etc. Anything that takes up more screen space is an auto-fail, especially given the developers’ insistence on ever more wasted space within windows every time they mess with the GUI.
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Because people who use overheating need to repair passive modules. I mean, you pvp… how the F do you not know this?
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For us colorblind people, there is almost no color that will provide indication. As a general rule, unless you can tell the difference in greyscale it is not good design.
The new version, where you have a break in the circle in different locations, is infinitely better. It could still be improved from that point, but the current version cannot be saved with more color.
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I can not believe any of the devs who signed off on this, actually play this game, actively.
The new capacitor bars looks awfull, why change a perfect design that is super easy to read? Instead of a consecutive readout of bars to show how much cap you have left. You want it to have 4 sections showing the exact same thing? How is that an improvement when you lose 75% of readability?
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i fking hate it, like really REALLY hate it, current hud is clear and does what it needs too perfectly i dont know why theyre changing it but its awful, clunky and too large FAR FAR TOO LARGE
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As long as Junison is tinkering with the HUD, it’s going to be a disaster again. FCCP won’t give a ■■■■ about the feedback.
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…and I did close my Journal window recently, so I can’t do missions any more
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I mean no disrespect.
But if accessibility for people have visual problems is the goal for the change. I would have some concerns. [Percentage wise to the total population in game etc…unless for some odd reason EVE Onlines player population is a higher than normal concentration than general population which I would doubt, but would love some data from Fenris on that.]
Because the color blindness variable is kind of a very odd set of color palate options. Depending on the version of color blindness. Three Major known classifications of color blindness. [A few different subsets]
Well then the question for the pilot HUD UI…is why isn’t there a color blind palate selection for that. Or a scaling option. We have scaling for the rest of the UI. [sometimes not enough I think for sizing…especially on laptops…but that is a different matter.]
To me the old tick system…is easier to read contextually, than this “smooth UI” But I understand that indicators…would be harder if they are color coded. And how shapes and icons would work for that. Maybe Fenris devs need to grey scale their UI…to see where the colors and icon action states…start to blend. Higher Contrast…especially between Black-White States of action indicators might be the first easiest adjustment.
Could you give some specific things like which buttons. Because that would help the community to feed back. I understand the “active module”/overheat module blink…to a color blind person with specific color blindness is very hard to differentiate. If you are running your comp on warm settings and and low brightness…to keep your eyes from straining some color contextual information is lost…generally because of size and scale and poor graphical contrast. That is a problem even for normal eyesight players.
Like this material has some contextual capacity…and can be used with various colors. To me the bars with color gradients and blocks make sense. Smooth systems…you don’t have alot of contextual information.
Like if you have a “smooth UI” you have to add numbers to that period. Because people want to see their stats exactly. But I also see some interesting issues with this new UI, giving away Fit/Pod details some people might not want to show off. Or the opposite issue, where you can obfuscate some details and information the opposite direction.
Yes Smooth is “Clean-Modern” but alot of games that went that direction end with some problems especially gameplay wise. Where breaking down the UI into measurable how should I say it. “fractional blocks and bits” allows for more accurate accounting interaction. And to me…seems more sensible for accessibility for people with visual problems. Yes would could ask for more clarity/contrast in the current UI. And I feel alot of the recent upgrades to the module design icons etc…was intially intended to this end.
Your thoughts?
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Not odd, overwhelmingly male, as it’s a sex linked genetic trait, so roughly double the normal concentration.
And you’re right that it’s not just a problem for CVD people, it’s just more pronounced.
Design wise, CVD is easily accommodated, but it can’t be accommodated by color because there are at least 7 types of known genetic variation and probably about as many types of neurological adaptation as there are individuals.
That doesn’t mean that color should not be used, of course, just that there need to be options, just like you can read the color of a crayon.
But specifically for me, I can’t really tell the difference between green and yellow, and reds fade into black. So, any button, icon, or UI element in Eve that is deep red, like the icons for Rats or the being targeted indicators, is nearly impossible to see. I can’t even tell you what the green/yellow indicators might be, they’re literally invisible. At least with the red I can generally see that something is there, even if it’s hard to make out clearly.
But my CVD isn’t the same as everyone’s.
Looking at this new HUD concept with this. This is probably a much more sensible compromise. Cleaning up the HUD…than whatever the heck the first concept shown was. Different/New…but players have a relatively low…learning curve to the new HUD. The first concept would cause chaos of relearning which is not a good idea.
I still have my reservations on the boosters bay system…because I see implications of botting.
Now, I do have a question, will the new HUD…also be present on targeting interactions? This is where I have some serious concerns…because if that also applies to what your enemy can see, that might undermine some of the surprise factor of fitting/pod mechanics in PVP.
I still think the capacitor ring…is a bit too big for what it is. Positive/Negative Indicator for Capacitor+Warfare interaction seems still a bit too small. Better placement But it needs some indicator something that shows what is going on.
Like so. Overheat/Overcharge needs a different icon to reduce confusion. Because the power icon needs to be used to show if capacitor recharge is positive or negative and needs power related icons. Overheat needs a “fire” icon to denote heat damage.
Also we need indicators showing how much rep per HP bar. [this would be extremely helpful with passive shield regen…active shield/armor/hull rep builds.] Not sure how to work in a concept that allows people to see what damage is being done to their HP bars via resists. This is one little headache that makes fitting a bit opaque for most newbros and players. Not the most important…like the rep amount indicator.
Just an indicator…concept. So we know…how much we are doing to rep our HP up.
Passive is pretty self-explainatory…only applies to shields.
Active is what you have fitted to your ships to rep. This indicator could have multiple blocks to indicate how much each repper is doing…or a setting showing cumulative rep if [multiple reppers are active.]
Logi…shows external influence on HP being restored…seperate or cumulative modules/drones factored in.
That would be more beneficial for the player base.
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I really applaud your efforts there Milint. However from experience, once they post it here, the deal is done. They don’t change because they ran with it. Over the next 4 months they will spit shine it maybe remove or add features, but 95% of their work is already in the bank. I mean they paid someone to do actual work on this – the 2 men from that video are getting a silly amount of cash – for what many of us look at as vandalism.
That might sound harsh, but here is the thing; back when they had the same type of “user input thread” on Photon, many points were ignored. For example; we still have no visible column seperator bars on any of the windows. To this day, overview adjustment has to be fished about until you get the cursor to change. Rose called me a pesimist, I think history speaks volumes for itself.
I respect your hard work putting that presentation together. AFAIK only the users will read it. Hope FC listens to you and either replaces this nightmare HUD or calls it off.
Fly safe o7
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Yeah that would be a fairly problematic system. Because the CVD variations are so wide. And that is before we deal with any mechanical issues of the eye itself.
So shapes/direct number and target labeling [word wise] becomes important.
And that is where it kind of would interesting if they tested a high contrast…bare bones wire frame UI. But yeah, its a problem that I think smooth UIs will only make the problem worse for everyone involved.
Do you have outline visibility issues? Because that option does help ID some items…especially if they blend into a background. Minmatar Space skyboxes must not be fun to operate around on. Some people have a weird visual effect where they can’t see outlines really well. It would seem like it would be first choice for adjustment. But I think a discussion on icons and or targeting clarity is a good point as well. Because for people with visual issues…the icons can add some confusion. where as normal eyesight would say Red/White/Blue and we can tell friend/foe NPC/player situation.
“Vandalism”…well at least we can call them Digital Graffiti Artists of the coding sort. 
(No shade towards Tambers excellent skin work…we like that kind of ship Graffiti work.)
I get your point, we will see if some of the feedback does get some positive movement.
But I also see why alot of people do get a bit frustrated. Because it does feels like it was an executive decision…using the smallest fraction of a percent of the playerbase to then roll with it. Whatever, good intentions were intended.
And I also see why people are so polarized both ways. Pro/Con. Although alot of the Cons are not being discussed and clarified.
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I like seeing my passive mods and how much heat damage they took.
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If it were up to me, The medallion would just be 4 or 5 horizontal bars, but my taste is zen minimalism. When I design business software, I keep it simple for the end user, but here we are in a different setting. The video gamers like a little eye candy.
Also when I design the software for a business, I have the luxury of sitting down with those end users face to face. I tend to focus on need over want, but if their desires reflect something actually helpful and productive, then I go the extra mile. In short, just because one worker likes kittens, I am not going to make it pink with cartoons of kittens all over the GUI.
I realize, I am not well suited to create video game interfaces, because of my standards. Nobody here wants my loading bars in place of a curvaious pie chart. Everyone has their opinions. Good luck with the FC developers.
o7
They said that was a placeholder icon
I do PvP for like 15 years and overheat quite a lot. Nobody needs the passives shown. They will endure heat much longer than the active ones anyway.
Yeah, one shouldn’t forget to repair them when there is time, but you don’t need to display them at all times for that.
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The smooth/flat design is just the current fad. It has nothing to do with CVD and I don’t have an opinion on it. You don’t have to like it, but it isn’t relevant to my concerns, and it’s just your personal preference. You probably don’t like certain car colors or house designs either, but usually people can separate their own preference from what everyone else’s preferences are.
Given that the flat design achieves the flatness by eliminating shadow and outline, I suspect two similar designs, one flat and one that appears more 3D, that the flat would more likely be easier to see, but being flat doesn’t rescue it and a non-flat could be fine.
I tend to be able to see certain things better, like differences in saturation, movement, and I can see well in the dark. But, that’s almost all without a lit screen. RGB uses a very particular red tuned specifically to normal color vision. Colors on a screen are an illusion and there’s no wavelengths coming to my eyes that make up the difference like in other places. That’s why color cannot be used, it’s a problem with the hardware, not the design and not the game.
Regarding skyboxes, they’re fine. It’s pure aesthetic and carries no information (until you said something, I didn’t know each space had it’s own color scheme, I just now looked it up). But that does show where most CVD settings go wrong. If you just changed red to magenta through the whole game, the skybox would look just as horrible to me as it would to you.
The colortags do have icons and it’s fine. I have friendlies as either light blue or black, fleet is purple, enemies are orange. Some of them flash. They have backgrounds in the overview. But, I can’t change the colors of NPC. Overview would be improved with settings for NPC and more color options for colortags, but it’s actually not that bad.
I do PVP for 15 years and I absolutely want to see my passive modules because they overheat as well when I heat my active mods. I want to see how close they are to burn out.
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