Idea for Balancing the Jump to a Cyno


(Joshua MIstweaver) #1

I had an idea for balancing cynos, would love your thoughts.

So my idea was that you would be able to choose when to jump, instant=get a debuff or wait out up to X minutes and get no debuff at all.

exact time is up to balancing ofc

so I thought cap could be one way to do it but any debuff basically works

jump instant: get cap drained a 100% for example

and then the longer you wait in spool up mode the lower the debuff after jumping would be.

  • could also be combined with other debuffs like resistances etc.

  • debuff then wears off after a while (much like drug sideffects)

  • the player can choose himself wich devil he wants to face

  • it is a little effort coordinating it in larger fleets, it leaves room for mishaps etc.

  • a second form of cyno inhibs could increase the debuff for incoming ships to grid

  • jumping instantly should have consequences that matter

  • once the spool up button is hit only a hic point or otherwise suitable interdiction can stop the jump from happening eventually, this allows for plays on both sides of the jump.


(Salt Foambreaker) #2

Why, what is wrong with cyno, you can’t use a cyno inhibitor?


(Joshua MIstweaver) #3

the instant nature of the cyno is whats wrong with it. a cyno inhib is only useful in situations where theres not already a cyno lit or not enough dps around so it can stay alive wich happens relatively seldom. A pilot that sees a inhib come online will just light the cyno beforehand.

I dont think instant travel should be impossible but I think it should come at a price.


(Salt Foambreaker) #4

You me before he saw it.

Got it!

Cost wise, train and equip a ship that can jump, then tell me about cost.


(Joshua MIstweaver) #5

I mean a situation where a ship with a cynosural field generator fitted realizes theres a mobile cynosural inhibitor being onlined in its proximity the well trained pilot will hit its cyno immediately and there will be a cyno up anyway that wont go down soon if he has no other options to leave the field, so this pilot has all opportunity to actually get instant help onto the grid. on top its really hard to keep a mobile cyno inhib alive as it has no resistances.

In big fights the only thing that stands in the way of instant escalation is the pilot readiness from the pilot lighting the cyno and the jump capable ships waiting to jump.

I think you got me wrong when I said “comes at a price”
What I meant was that the time it takes you to perform the jump should come at a price, not monetary but in form of a debuff.


(Sepheir Sepheron) #6

Not sure if trolling or dense.


(Joshua MIstweaver) #7

dunno


(Old Pervert) #8

So, to be sure we’re approaching this from the right angle, are you trying to prevent a standing fleet from responding or do you have a different motivation behind the suggested change?

Ultimately, my thought is this. Anything worth jumping a response fleet in to save (another capital, such as a rorq super or titan) can survive long enough for your spool-up to be irrelevant in any situation where they’re actually going to use a rapid response. Absolute worst case, you’ll just see faxes suiciding in to save the thing if it’s needed. Such is the fax’s lot in life. Once the timer’s up/acceptably low, here comes the cavalry.

It has no impact outside of hot-dropping, because you don’t hot drop on something that can effectively fight back. If you did, you did it wrong or you were asking for the chance to feed.

Jump drives don’t need consequences any more than gates do. A sub fleet can rapidly travel, so why shouldn’t a cap fleet?

I feel like you would be better served focusing on mitigating capitals. But of course, my initial question stands.


(Joshua MIstweaver) #9

The idea is not to prevent a response but rather to diversify tactics on both the sides of the cyno. I want a larger window opened for the attacking side to have wiggle room to either establish better grid control, kill the unrepared target etc.

So I think the best answer to your question is: The Idea is to open larger possibilities and more tactical choices while getting rid of the instant nature of Cyno Jumps. A sub fleet is actually a good example, it can travel rapidly but not instantly. How often have I seen large BS fleets that had to quickly travel a small number of jumps to get to a fight being outplayed by a couple of good sabre pilots making these jumps a PITA just as one example?!


(Old Pervert) #10

Battleships are by and large the worst possible case for gate travel (capitals should never be taking anything but regional gates and even then only with substantial escort).

Waterboarding within the context of the thread is apples to oranges. The travel of capitals and the travel of subs is the topic, once you start adding things like interdiction in it’s no longer possible to make a fair comparison. For example, those same sabre pilots can easily keep capitals interdicted permanently.

One problem I see with this topic in general is that you appear to be basing things on asymmetric encounters. Capitals jumping in on something and destroying it.

You can’t really change mechanics around asymmetric encounters, unless they’re also going to balance against symmetric encounters (because if both sides ■■■■ up and bring a fair fight, it should technically be entirely decided by player skill).

Any kind of nerf to capitals jumping in will undoubtedly cause them a massive disadvantage in offensive operations. That’s not a huge deal when they’re hot-dropping on some 10 man roam, but when they’re jumping onto a grid with a few hundred enemy capitals, that’ll rapidly spell their doom. You can say that they can spool up slowly, but honestly, a cyno won’t live long enough for that to work. The spool-up time will be countered easiest by popping hostile cynos (which already happens). They can’t warp in from off grid because drag bubbles will murder them.

I see it reducing conflict, rather than generating it. Anything that generates conflict is good, anything that reduces it is bad.


(kosmicheski) #11

Glad to see more and more topics about cyno… Maybe there is a problem.
I generally do not agree with “special” mechanics or ship classes …

I know what eve was, when there wasn’t a titan on every gate. :slight_smile:

So Yes something should be done to allow you to slow down the “standing” fleet.
I think it will be better to just remove the cyno from capitals.

It requires player actions to initiate, with capture and move the cyno to bring in the attackers.
On the other hand it requires only one click to bring in the “standing” fleet.
When cyno is used by capital class ship good luck slowing down the “standing” fleet.

I have a topic about that https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-cyno-from-capitals/
It make sens … but logic is a rare point of ccp balance teams.

Good luck with your idea. Prepare for the miners hate. They have only few ships: rorq, carrier / supper to krab in when there is nothing to mine. When you pop in local everyone dock up, until they form a CAMP on the gate with Supers and Titans…
You are disturbing, there way of easy eve life :slight_smile:


(Old Pervert) #12

I’d rather see cynos impart a significant penalty to the resistances of your largest buffer. For example, a shield tanked ship would lose say 50% omni to their shield buffer. Whether that happens as a result of fitting or lighting would be up for discussion.

Second change I’d suggest for nerfing cynos, would be to reduce their cycle time to 60 seconds. It makes inhibs WAY more dangerous and greatly rewards prepared roamers. If that’s not enough, reduce their anchor time to 60 seconds.

Most response fleets can’t do an organized response in less than 60 seconds. The ones that can deserve to drop that hammer.


(Joshua MIstweaver) #13

yei think you are right on that point. A cyno cycle time of 60 seconds and a no-auto cycle setting would help the current situation immensely. This would prolly be the easiest and most effortless way to do it.