# Improving the mechanics of 'orbit'

Orbits aint orbits.

In a fight, whenever I choose to orbit an entity, I always have a mental picture of what kind of orbit I feel will achieve my purpose, and, importantly, what will not achieve my purposes. The path I want my ship to traverse around the object can usually be categorised into a small set of options; whether it be orthogonal to some incoming enemies, staying clear of nearby obstacles, or just circling my target. (Perhaps other pilots could add their thoughts to this short list.) When not in a fight, I’m usually indifferent about the resulting orbit path.

However, after initiating the orbit, on far too many occasions, the orbit path that results is bad at best and stupid at worst, and only occasionally is it ideal. The random nature of the mechanics often leaves me with the desire to fire the clone that is piloting of my ship.

I would like to propose the current `orbit` function be augmented with a new, optional, level of control that gives the capsuleer the ability to choose the orientation of the orbit. Perhaps the `Q` mechanics, used for approaching or manually flying one’s ship, could be borrowed and integrated somehow into the `orbit` function. If the random nature of orbits is an integral part of CCP’s fight mechanics, then, perhaps, the fidelity of the orbit could be influenced by the quality of the clone’s `Cybernetic Subprocessor` or other factors/skills.

As things stand, this is a real problem that has existed for a long time, and, judging by the support I got from the help channels when I raised this issue, there are many others who would like to see this aspect of flying/fighting improved.

(I’m aware this topic has been raised in the past, but frustration is a great motivator.)

4 Likes

What I would like to see is to have the ‘orbit’ command take your current ship vector into account.

As it is now, your ship just picks a random orbit angle and direction at the specified distance.

If the orbit command would pick an orbit angle and direction that most closely matches your ships current vector with relation to the orbit target, this would give players the fine control over orbiting that you’re looking for.

And I would love to see that.

2 Likes

Love to have the option to be able to hit the manual direction key on orbit command to tell the mechanics the direction of your order.

This could allow one to change direction of current orbit.

3 Likes

These are the Eve forums. What is with these supportive posts? We are supposed to ridicule the OP, tell them to ‘git gud’, and blame them for being lazy and not flying their ship manually.

4 Likes

orbit is like auto pilot if you want good results you need to do it manually. I wouldn’t be against this idea but the ship commands are old, real old. berried deep within the spaghetti

1 Like

That has often been my response in the past, especially when people complain about the current orbit mechanics.

Not this time - the OP has a clear and constructive idea how to improve the game. And he’s right.

The orbit command could be much more intuitive and allow more player control.

I still think manual piloting is the best way to have control over your ship, but I would like to see my ship not turn around when I set an orbit command.

It’s not completely random. It’s function of system, ship_id and time.
Some time ago speed was also in equation. That made grapplers OP and was changed.

I suggest to introduce new command. Set orbit target. It will force orbit plane to be perpendicular to vector to target (ideal damage avoidance orbit).
Also I’d like to have approachable up/down/east/west/north/south directions that can be added to overview

In PvP scenario , if you are a kiter and you orbiting manual… as long as you dont mess it up… opponent has near to no chance to get you by slingshot… you are unpredictable , opponent can make a guess mayy be … by fallow your pattern … most pilots orbit manual in one dimention and direction if horisontal , angle can be change like 60- 65 degree… and very little amount of them can deal with all angles and go for not only x but y capable for All the directions and angles

It is hard really explain by writing … lol i have been showing these in practice classes but never need to write like that … but hope up to now it is clean .

Now here is the issue … manual orbiting in PvP conditions against experienced pilot is highly risky… you mess up , you can get caught…

If OP sugestion applied to game … this will remove the piloting skill factor in that spesific context , totally out of table.

While you are in engagement and when you are orbiting manually you have to manage your angular CONSTANT! One sharp turn , one shitty angle cost your speed and you are dead on the ice … it is just a luck if other pilot cannot use that opportunity to get you …

If OP suggestion pass … this removes the risk of geting caught in fight by switching auto orbit … so this brings quite a huge advantage for the hunter kiter…

I have seen so many pilots who does not believe manuel piloting, who thinks if you tackled. you cant come out , etc etc… and some type of horse glasses perspective …

What you sugest here has a serious damage on this dimention of PvP piloting …
it makes kiting far far more easy… and very forgivable…
Imagine , there is nearly no risk to loose speed and got slingshotted !

…instead of click intense pure manual , mix match manual with auto orbit with ZERO risk to loose your angle and speed… ! WOAH

i did auto orbit too…so many times… esp when i see pilots who does not comphrehend how to disengage or how to catch and not even act on it … easy kill has no fun …
But taste and fun start when opponent begin to pull some maneuvras…psych war…

I have been at both sides of these fights, both kite and get kited … i do respect both end. This is bad for both side,. It is bad for true kiter coming from the gladiators time and spirit … The ones who thrilled by taking risk… not averse it … he wants to be challenged, he enjoys the fact result of fight id setermined to his skill ,performance,his current concentration and focus…
it is baaad bad for the one who get kited… in first hand he loose a serious potential oportunities to cath the kiter, or tactical disengage with that orbit advantage…

So … just NO please… mutual respect !

Or yes… just detstroy last bits and pieces what fightig , space ships exhalirating , small details where piloting skills truly matters .

Makes it easier for me to stay away… less thing to miss and longing for …

1 Like

I hear what you’re saying!

I made my OP from the perspective of a PvE player, where I normally orbit my MTU, sometimes an object on grid, and occasionally on a rat. It was not my intention to `dumb down` PvP play.

Perhaps my OP could be considered as applying strictly to PvE play, and in recognition of your points, perhaps `orbit` should not be available at all when fighting PvP?

Orbit / approach / keep at range had strategical value in PvP.

It is a decision we need to make by considering huge amount of variables in a very short time … for example if our opponents guns tracking worst than ours but our tank is weak if we are in same size hulls or other hull bigger than ours … we prefer to go for tight orbit … if opponent has single double / web we consider the circumstances according to our fits and hulls strength and weaknesses… guns are short range or long range? Turret or missile? Our speed ? What kind of tackle mod we have ? We will take fight in our optimal or fall off?

Alot …lot of things on the table turn these fights amazing experience…
Imagine removing orbit from PvP beside the fact it is technically impossible, but practically death of billions of different variations of engagements wiped out from existance … more than that… it is as it is a huge value in defence as well as attack… leaves us totally vulnarable against bigger hulls… and against many guns,

I smiled when you give me an example of cans…
people who train me into pvp… start me up with condors and kiting …
For hours and days i think i have orbit cans in space manually …
First i start with big object like pos, and orbit pos in one direction horisontal… then vertical

by staying 19- 23 km from the target dont get closer you increase possibility to get caught to scrams and it shuts down your MWD… then you are dead…

Dont go out of 23 you might loose your point , ( warp disruptor ) your prey run away …

When these done he ask me to practice on smaller objcets so… i drop a can in sapce… same drill…

After some time he asked me to turn aroun the can by rotating and swith vertical to horisontal and without loosing my angular… MWD on ! He asked me to record it while i am doin that…

Then i begin to practice same stuff with mooving objects…
He tought me scram kite and how manual manipulate and counter the manipulations … how to hold my ship where i want to be…

Hope these give you bit more insight about the subject …
And… by the way… i like your name A lot

2 Likes

Adding ability to choose orbit plane will NOT remove need for manual piloting in any case except the most primitive one. Back in days I used to adjust my orbit by lowering my speed by 1-10 m/s

Also choosing and establishing and correcting good orbit in midst of battle will also need skill and effort. More skill and effort then most players have.

PS @bluelysian if manual orbiting is peak of your skill then you have long way to go.

manual piloting a paper thin kiting frigate while managing transversal, modules, heat, avoiding scrams and webs AND holding point all at the same time is incredibly skillful. infact i’d say it’s the most skillful play style i can think of

2 Likes

It is incredibly skillful but its also often inefficient. Like the poster above you is hinting, there are alot of ways to gain advantages in fights and most of them wont even include mechanical prowess. Unless he aswell is only focusing on the mechanical play of pvp.

I think he was referencing the early development of a new pilot. Didnt get a “manual orbit is the end all be all”-vibe from that story.

I want a square orbit button.