And there’s a reason ccp left barges off the Alpha ship lists.
If an Alpha wants to fly a mining moa or rokh, there’s nothing stopping them under the current mechanics.
Fair points. Though, I’d also like to add none of those are dedicated fleet miners, so they don’t really fill that role. The closest you can come to is the covetor / hulk, but they still have an ore hold of 9-11 k.
T2 versions of the proposed ships could also be added at a later date. Which would mine at a faster rate than their barge / exhumer counterparts, but would require active play in order to make use of them since they’d lack the ore holds of the ORE ships.
Battle haulers are a meme. People fly them for the meme, so it’s actually impossible to make a dedicated ship to fit that role.
Mining Moas and Rokhs are effective. It’s kind of silly to not have a mining ship that could fill that role, when the role itself is practical application.
Kind of. I’m not actually suggesting something that doesn’t already exist. Just modify the capability that’s already there to be more visible / intuitive. And of course, serve as a potential platform for a t2 line at a later date if CCP decides it’s a good idea.
There’s also the factor that someone who doesn’t really mine much, but has some basic mining skills (ie: alpha level mining skills but hasn’t gone for the 15 day train into barges) could hop in a racial mining cruiser and hang out with corp mates for a relaxing moment.
And like I mentioned in the op, there are overall benefits for the game at large as well. the social aspect - friendship machine (which is something CCP has spent a lot of time talking about) and potential interactions created by the use of jetcan mining again.
Looking at this more… I think it might make the most sense to make these ships be “fleet issue” ships sold to players through the fw and mining corporation lp stores.
That would put the frigates in the 10 mil per hull range, and the cruisers in the 50- 60 mil hull range.
As for ship bonuses… lets throw something down and see how it sticks.
Frigate
Since we’re aiming at the 7.5 m3/s of the moa miner, a bonus of 20% to mining yield per racial frigate level will get us there.
(once again, numbers are based off of mining L4 and mining upgrades L4 : Alpha Max)
I’m going with a 3 - 3 - 1 slot layout, because I don’t want to give players the potential ability to figure out a way to get a second mining upgrade in the low slot.
3 t2 miners assisted by 1 t2 mining upgrade
1.3 x 3 x 1.8 (racial frigate 4) = 7.02 (alpha compliant) 421 m3 per cycle
1.3 x 3 x 2 (racial frigate 5) = 7.8 (omega) 468 m3 per cycle
So we’re looking at a cargohold of around 500 m3. This could also be achieved through the racial frigate bonus. (20% per level.)
250 x 1.8 (racial frigate 4) = 450 m3
250 x 2 (racial frigate 5) = 500 m3
And finally a role bonus of 50% reduction in cpu cost for mining lasers and mining upgrades.
88 x 3 + 40 = 304 cpu / .5 = 152
Then we add in the mid slots
Based on those options, we’re looking at the need for about 40 - 50 cpu for mid slots as well. So we’ll say the ship should produce around 190 - 200 cpu. Or you could drop the cpu amount about 20 to force a cpu rig or two.
40 - 50 power grid should be sufficient for the ship as well.
So the run down is:
20% to mining yield per racial frigate level
20% to cargo hold volume per racial frigate level
role bonus:
50% reduction in cpu need for mining lasers and mining laser upgrades.
3 high slots : 3 turrets
3 mid slots
1 low
190 - 200 cpu
40 - 50 pg
base cargo hold of 250
500 - 1000 total hp
no drone bay
I’ll come back and figure out the cruiser later.
True, however I was clearly thinking of those who mainly do solo mining and everyone eventually have little choice but to do it solo (whether multi-boxing or not) or move on to other more lucrative activities.
I’m well aware of how fleet mining works. I have 3 accounts that I used to multi-box mining entire asteroid belts alone. An Orca + 2 Skiff/Procurer can easily delete belts in 1-2hours. Haven’t done much in-game since my return from a 3 year hiatus.
Not sure how popular Ice mining multi-boxers are these days but I used to see them often enough. Their composition were a Freighter, an Orca and 6-8 Procurer/Skiff and would delete entire Ice anomalies in 10-20min (with no-one else around).
The Mining Foreman/Director Skills does give a slight passive boost to mining yield, if the pilot with that skills is in a Fleet/Wing/Squad Command position in the fleet. The boost I was referring to is the Command Burst (active boost) which can give various bonuses for a limited time, among them is Cycle time/Cap usage reduction for mining modules.
My “hangup” as you put it; is that you want to give Alpha players a new mining ships which has a mining output “equal to that of a mining barge” but is affordable to the players at little to no cost and without “risking” anything of “real” value. As you yourself have mention before (or just in passing), nothing in your proposal isn’t already possible, it’s just an inconvenience to do a little research into what it takes and what is available to you. The deeper we dive into the fine prints of your suggestion the more it just stands out as just a “QoL” (Quality of Life) change or “I WANT MORE FREE STUFF” whine. At this point in time I’d say it more the former than the latter.
How will a (new) player ever grow (as a person and/or learn to think for themselves) when everything is spoon fed to them?
I’m sure that eventually things might change in the direction that you want but I for one would probably have stopped playing before then.
Or did you forget about this MEME? It’s more of a soft “cliff” now than a steep one.
Also worth mentioning “When in doubt, ask in Rookie Help Chat” or any of the language specific ones.
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This thread is tagged “fleet harvesting.”
There’s also this from the op:
So sure, you can think of it being a solo miner, but that’s not what this thread is about.
LOL, no. This is not what I’m doing. And don’t put quotation marks around words that people didn’t say, that’s bad form.
I’m moving the role that a Moa / Rokh miner fills to a dedicated hull for that purpose.
Once again, this capability is already in the game. There’s nothing new added except for some shiny graphics, and making it cheaper to sit in the mining ships. (People talk about mining rocks not being worth it, so lowering that barrier to entry is one way to help fix that.) In exchange, the hp of the ships is also lower. moa > frigate, rokh > cruiser, making them more susceptible to ganking.
So how are you going to write that, and then also write what you wrote previously?
Once again, it doesn’t give extra functionality over what’s already in the game, so the “more free stuff” angle is just you being bad at reading comprehension. If anything, my motivation is, “I want jet can mining to be a thing again so I can can flip the miners.”
That said, it absolutely is a QOL improvement, that serves to improve the social aspect of the game. I believe it would actually do that, making the game better for everyone.
With that logic eve would still look like this:
And no one would play it because none of the systems that make it as good as it is today would have ever been developed. If you’re going to troll, go do it somewhere else.
Just saying. This is one of the things a change like the one in the OP is designed to bring back.
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I think you make some good points.
I think holds need to be nerfed to make jet can mining profitable enough to where it cannot be ignored.
Every miner should daily feel the heat of the choice between greed and safety. If they choose greed, they should be twitching from the risk. If they choose safety, they should be twitching in envy at everyone making more than they are.
Then aggro mechanics need to rolledback to pre-retribution so can flipping can happen again… can flipping was always the gateway to pvp.
When retribution put it down hard, pvp dropped to nothing but hub humping and hardcore hunters. And then hunting got nerfed and the entire art was lost.
The 5 training systems need to be released back to free fire. Noob systems need to be safe, but the profession systems need to be actively on fire when noobs show up. It needs to a circus like it was in 09.
Do that and Eve will wake back up.
Well that’s the point of the suggestion in the op. It doesn’t change what’s available, just makes some faster low level miners with no hold. Which technically exist, they’re just not visible to most people.
The same effect could be done with the barges and exhumers. A T2 fleet miner would require cruiser 5 and mining barge 1, and an exhumer fleet miner would require cruiser 5 and mining barge 5 (exhumer 1.)
That way you’re incentivizing people to mine in a fleet, or jet can mine. Or… the player makes the choice to do the safe thing, and use an ore ship.
I’m not really sure what you’re referring to. You can still can flip / jet can mine, people just don’t because there’s barely any reason to… especially when you get skilled into barges.
Though, now that I’m thinking of it, I vaguely recall flipping someone’s can or stealing their loot wouldn’t globally flag you, just suspect flag you to that person.
I don’t know that it’s necessary to roll that back. For one, I think it’s a lot more understandable for new players the way it is now, and secondly, hardly anyone will engage a suspect flagged person as it is anyway. That said, I’m mostly indifferent on the matter - CCP needs to first incentivize players to jet can mine again before the suspect baiting is really a factor for mining again anyway.
As for flipping mission runners, that’s still quite possible. You’ll just be globally flagged. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
You may have a point here. I know CCP has the metrics for this sort of thing, but data sets often require a certain amount of interpretation to read them correctly.
-1
This proposal is an idea of a solution looking for a problem.
-1
Adding new ships to simulate something already possible to fit and use in game with a little brain cell juice used… Waste of Dev time.
so its a -2 for this proposal as it is just plain garbage.
Better to just direct newer players into player corps that have organized mining fleets and boosts. Where they can learn to fit ships, and make the “proper” ISK to go omega without paying RL cash, learn how to play the game, etc etc.
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fair enough, thanks for your input.
Yeah, global criminal is too hard for timid noobs.
You need limited engagement profiles for noobs where they can fight other noobs.
The global criminal thing has dissuaded entire generations of Eve players from dabbling in pvp. They don’t want the risk of being global criminal themselves and when they see a global criminal they perceive it as so bold as to scary… so they assume they can’t beat someone so bold.
And they don’t try. Add onto that the absence of any reason to leave anything out to be stolen… and you get no interaction.
Global criminal for theft has absolutely shutdown noob PvP entry.
Fair enough, yeah it would probably be a good idea to roll that back then. You’d need a new state though, since there are other places where the globally flagged suspect would still be viable (such as the highsec ess mechanic I keep trying to push - though, maybe even there it should just be flagged for other people in the site - rather than have it be a global flag.)
All I get from that is you wanting easier targets…
Still more crying for easier targets.
BTW,
Mining is fine apart from CCP faffing around with what’s available, where it’s available and when it’s available plus anyone with 2 alpha accounts can still enjoy jetcan mining with a Venture and Battleship with a larger hold.
Yeah, the proposal in the op was just to make that option more visible to the player base and make the ships / loadout cheaper to pull it inline with the reward.
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