Is there any plans to close the loop hole that is ganking?

A completely banal statement. If somebody or some group wants a ship dead, it is dead.

The point is that tanking your procurer makes your ship less likely to be ganked.

This is supported, IMO, by killboard data. Your point about relative proportions of the mining population would be persuasive in gankers ganked randomly, but they don’t.

Which do not show up on the killboards.

My view is this:

Players who gank mining ships are not just randomly ganking. Miners face a trade off between tank and yield. In looking at the killboards, players seem to prefer yield. They choose yield either knowingly or unknowingly inspite of the increased risk of being ganked. After all, a poorly fit retriever can be ganked by a suitably skilled catalyst pilot. Seven gankers could gank up to 7 retrievers or 1 procurer. Even a moderately tanked hulk is vulnerable.

[Hulk, Sedaria Khurelem’s Hulk]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
ML-3 Scoped Survey Scanner

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II

Hobgoblin I x2
Hobgoblin I x3
Mining Drone I x1
Mining Drone I x4

That guy has about 15,400 EHP. A skilled cat pilot could take him down with a bit of luck.

So yeah, tanking a procurer/skiff right now would likely reduce your risk of being ganked.

That is the opinion I say is biased. Just because you don’t gank randomly, does not mean that a miner should not expect to get ganked randomly. I talked with people who did not care about killing or not, who just ganked for the fun.
AND as I said, if every people fitted for tank, still they would be ganked.

I think you don’t understand what I’m saying. You say the “best fit” to not get ganked is to fit for tank. That is wrong, the best fit is to not undock. Even in a tanked proc they would eventually get ganked. And they would make less money.

And yes, I just visited some systems yesterday to get bpos @jita. Saw lots of macks on dscan. did not notice many proc, nor many hulk/covetor. Did not search a lot though.

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This is just silly. Clearly we see purposeful behavior…to then turn around and claim randomness is not simply biased it is just silly.

Ganking for fun does not mean random ganking.

But they don’t, this is at best a thought experiment that is of limited use.

You can’t do any mining that way. Seriously you glomb on to statement that is does not articulate all possible aspects in an obvious manner and then run down a rather goofy rabbit hole.

As for ISK it depends. Grabbing a covetor sure you can make more ISK/hour, but you’ll be far more likely to lose that ship. A covetor can mine more/hour, but it can also be easily solo’d by a pilot with even a moderate amount of SP. So it boils down to the likelihood of being ganked. The more likely a ship is to be ganked, then that will eat into your profits. And if you have to spend time reshipping that too eats into your ISK/hour. Yeah, sure the covetor will probably win out…but oddly enough people are using the startegy that gets them the most ISK and they show up and whine.

Oh, and there are a fair number hulks getting ganked. If anything people are using very sub-optimal strategies. Using a hulk which is far, far more expensive and probably does not come with a commensurate increase in ISK/hour. And the mackinaw is like the retriever a gank magnate.

Overall, I find complaints about ganking positively amusing. People using dubous strategies and then whining about it vs. going on and learning from their mistakes.

What I say is, you don’t consider the thing from a miner point of view.
You consider only from your experience, thus have biases on how miner understand ganking.
When you can’t predict if you get ganked, then it is the definition of random gank.

You can get ganked in a proc, you can get ganked in a covetor, for some people it’s just a matter of luck.
So no, they don’t have the choice.
Let’ be honnest, in one hour in a carrier you can make 12 catalysts. (in bounty,that is direct cash). how long does it take to find a target, prepare a setup for the 6-cata gank, then kill target, and wait for criminal flag to end - twice ? 40min ? Yeah, in a super it’s even faster and you can create more cataganks than you can gank people with in an hour.
While the miners have much lower income, thus lose a lot more.
And that’s for your “full tank procurer”

Bullcrap. I do mine. My first alt started out as a dedicated mining alt, later moved on to invention and PI.

Bullcrap. I look at the killboards.

And I also went around an looked at asteroid belts with miners and also ice belts. As for you claim nobody uses procurers (and skiffs, which I have also referenced in this thread and elsewhere) I offer this:

Halima_miners

Ikao_miner1

Kamio_miners

Uotila_miners

Waira_Miners

Bullcrap. While ganking can be expressed as subjective probabilities from the standpoint of the gank target, that does not mean that the ganker is behaving randomly.

Bullcrap. I never said a procurer cannot be ganked. It is less likely to get ganked if it is tanked well.

Bullcrap. Yes they do. Go for tank and face a reduced risk of being ganked and also a higher probability of surviving a gank.

I rarely rat in NS and I don’t do it in a carrier. Anymore assumptions you want to make about how I make my ISK?

Depends. If you have the 6 guys or you have 6 alts not that long. If you don’t then longer.

Then move on and find something with a better pay off or switch to a ship with a tank that has a chance to withstand a gank.

To be perfectly honest in about 40 minutes of looking I found several miners the majority of which are in procurers or skiffs. Looking over the pictures, I see 16 mining ships and 14 are procurers or skiffs.

So…based on this limited sample I’m not inclined to believe your claim that people are usually in ships other than the procurer (or skiff). In fact, it appears to be the opposite at this point and that the gankers seek out the softer targets like retrievers, mackinaws and hulks.

Sorry…you got nothing but a pile or rhetoric and pretty much nothing else.

See below:

What do you say to that?

I always deliver.

It is not permitted for a person to run multiple alphas clients, or an omega with x alpha clients, simultaneously, regardless of how many platforms they are running on.

Source thread:

Are multiple accounts allowed as an Alpha?

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Unless you find you in violation of the code which invalidates your permit, ie not greeting an agent, mining more than 4 hours and many other holes we have.

Late, but a very well argumented post. I stand corrected. I will edit my post now.

Which one?

The one that essentially admitted you are running multiple alphas, or alphas with omegas, simultaneously, on multiple PCs and should be reported and permabanned if you turned out to be wrong to do so?

That one?

Too late. You cant edit it. Its already quoted.

Well then I will be sitting in a corner crying hoping that one day I can log in again…
:innocent:

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Well you said yourself you should be reported and permabanned for cheating if you turned out to be wrong:

You did turn out to be wrong, and essentially admitted to running multiple alphas or alphas + omegas, simultaneously, on multiple platforms/PCs, in violation of rules:

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ok, after spamming for 2H now salvos starts bolding ? Is that the new level of childish ?
Salvos, using bold font is a way to present something more specific. When your full sentence is bold, you only show you have no idea of what is important. That is rude.

Nice of you to have taken the time to search that - so hard to find - link he asked.
Next time someone asks you something, maybe you just give him what he asks ? Instead of harassing someone else ?

It does not make you a miner. Just because YOU think this does not mean it is true.

And you make wrong statistic analysis of the killboard.

And I did the same, quickly, and found ~30 macks in a system, which evens out what you are showing - but truly it was not a rigorous analysis. Without such a rigorous analysis, we are not allowed to give statistical data though. The thing is, YOU are translating zkb data into a causation, using statistical data assumption.

source this claim. Otherwise you are an utter liar.

Which is the definition of random “from a miner point of view”.

This is false unless proven true.
for a miner, he will get ganked. Hence they have no choice.

That is not a choice, for the reasons I gave. Read again and try to understand instead of trying to place “bulcrap” the most often.

“you” was generic. from a miner point of view, you are not different from any other who can have alts in NS and make lots of isks.

It wont. You agree that proc can get ganked and then you say it can withstand a gank.
If a proc can still get ganked, it does not give you anything.

Well, you think because you mined in an alt you understand the choices a miner can have to make. I tell you you don’t understand.
And since you can’t understand that a gank is random from a miner point of view, and can’t make the difference between correlation and causation, I strongly advice you to take lessons in statistical analysis. You clearly don’t have the basis to hold that discussion.

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Not really, let me clear that up for you. I (and anyone else for that matter) should be reported if we break any rule. CCP shall take action and make sure those miscreants won’t spoil the game for everyone else. Neither I or you are different from that, we are just ‘players’… people consuming the game offered by CCP.

I can be as salty as I like when being banned for 3 days or even permabanned. It’s my account and I can cry when I want to just like you do on the forums. To each their own. Do you feel better now I learned you how to make a good post?

If you understand that you might understand how HighSec is being kept on their toes (or ‘saved’ as some people eloquently say) by the pirates who attack miners, haulers and in general people who are a little too toxic in local. Those entities, which are from different corps and have different views on who they attack and why, keep an atmosphere of danger in an otherwise void highsec space. They scare people as they come unexpected, but people can prepare. No, people will never be completely safe in high sec unless they are extremely well organized and most actions can only be taken after a ship is wrecked and some actions can only be taken when someone gets podded… but for the latter, something really strange has happened.

I hope the people here on the forums will also ‘help’ people in game as there is a need to learn. Inform people and make New Eden Great Again Now! Sometimes I feel like I’m in “The walking dead in space”. I’m more like a disposable side character at best, maybe just figuring in the background but I love the stories behind both the mining and hauling corps and also behind the pirates although I disagree with how they try to get it done.

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I am right, you where wrong.
I asked you, and you where wrong to reply as you did.
Own it.

Dont worry. I will report you to CCP soon enough, as you asked us to do should you be proven wrong that your choice to use multiple alphas, or alphas alongside omegas on any number of platforms is legal (it isnt legal).

You are both WRECKED.

I am right, and you were wrong and rude.

I answer as I want , and you are a violent person who tries to force people to do what he wants when they told you they do not want to.

It just happen to not work on these forums.

When I say no, it is no. You are a spoiled child who can’t accept a “no” and cries until his mom gives him what he wants. I’m not your mom. You will only get what you deserve.

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You where wrong, and backed up a cheater:

Own it.
You are responsible for your crap,
Crying “wolf” isnt going to help you here.

Please seek professional help, what you are doing is not healthy. I hope CCP staff can help you find a solution with your problems and explain you others can post here. I’m not a psychiatrists but please seek one before it’s too late.

Exposing a cheater and a liar for all to see is “unhealthy”?

Nice try, but its going nowhere.

Avoiding.

Yes, you will.
Extensive reports with screenshots of both your conduct/posts heading to CCP tomorrow.