THIS. Again…
I have spent years in Rookie help channel.
There is people there helping along with me for long time who knows the process far better than CCP and far better aware about New players challenges .
Only survelliance in tnat channel from ISD and GMs and if someone rage there we all know what happens… GM and ISD quickly smash the head with very blunt language “ they do their job objectively “ in their heads.
I have mentioned this issue to CCP and asked them to sent those people some basic communication skills courses.
They dont resemble any little skill on that area most cases.
I dont know how many times i have clean their mess afterward by direct messaging these pilots and listen understand the issue and help them come over …afterward talk around things get relax but keep it up with game
CCP must “ RESPECT” veteran players. Seeing them like a stone on their way to change is straight blunt and underdeveloped .WRONG PERSPECTIVE and FRAMING !
I have explained how to handle this situation very clean in OP.
Veteran players are very precious to carry the flag to the new generations . They are not stagnant idiots who resist changing blindly .
If they see something intelligent and wel crafted and applied without breaking the nature and spirit of the game, im pretty sure they will understand the fact time is changing and of course game will evolve too…
But if CCP do all those mindless stuff… Vet s reacts ! They dont have to know all those theories or facts and research… initutation talks here very clean they do sense something is very off
They just having hard time to explain things in this intense interconnectedness
Yeah well its clear your experiences as a leader in a veteran group are very different from a lot of veterans who dont operate in the same kind of groups, and Im saying that neither of those views are whats needed if CCP want to receuit and maintain new players.
I just dont think your view and mine on what form this would take are going to be the same. You are applying your professional knowledge to it, Im only going by what some other game franchises are doing atm, so you probably have better grounds in regard to describing it in an academic manner.
Im just saying that I dont think EvE’s themes
in regard to the atmosphere players operate in as they are and have been are compatible with those methods and goals.
That something you can debate with CCP Ghost . He has course in Edx also i strongly suggest you to jpin. CCP recieve mountains of applications for data to use by universities and research centers.
If these terms were not suitable for theme… i must have been failed at my own project… which i didnt on the opposite way. I have clearly proof its success… and wrote a presentation about that too to share this knowledge with rest of new eden .
Some of the concepts i introduce is so universal you can observe then in the world even in the animal world.
Also i know their challenges because i had a chance to talk to them one by one i did see where they stuck
I’m a new player and I may not have the experience or information necessary to make all the correct deductions but it seems to me that while the biggest problem with new player retention is ship loss, it hides another reason that leads players to quit: the inability to quickly replace that loss or, more precisely, the lack of means to do so.
There are not enough ways to make enough isk in a short periods of time to replace ships and modules that, when combined, come to amount in the hundreds of millions and to do so means to buy more ships and modules only to lose them again. A new player cannot make millions of isk an hour, that luxury belongs to long-time players who have learned to do what it takes to do that over many years and many learning experiences.
I’d call that a quicksand effect and I think it directly contributes to new player quitting. They don’t see the light at the end of the tunnel and quit in desperation.
Sure, one can always go the cheap route and buy and fit a ship for a hundred million or less but that ship ends up being pathetically weak and easy prey for more experienced players and the new player ends up in the same position of ship loss over and over again with the long hill-climb to replace ship and modules and shoot for level 2 modules, which are ten times more expensive than their regular counterparts and harder to find and longer to pick up.
Until CCP comes up with a way for new players to make enough isk to buy powerful ships with powerful modules and the means to learn how to fly them effectively, new players will keep leaving because no one in their right mind will continue to play a game where winning, and by winning I mean be able to operate in the green, is out of their grasp for years.
I myself do not expect to have a great time playing EVE, just maybe a bit of fun. I just play the game because I like to pretend to be a regular citizen-capsuleer faced with insurmountable odds I will never overcome. Like a Greek tragedy in space.
I fully expect to lose ship after ship without the hope of ever operating in the green and I’m fine with that. In that sense, EVE isn’t so different from real life: it’s a 3itch and then you die.
I think theres a bit of a language barrier here, I dont think you understood what I was getting at.
Never mind, its cool, I wish you success with your endeavour.
Note: the post above mine underlines another problem; that new players think they need “hundreds of millions” in order to play the game. Thats just insane to me, Ive no idea why they would think that other than being led down a particular path by other players.
In my opinion and to my own experience EVE is teaching it’s players also skills, which are very useful for real life: in particular how to get over a loss and continue and learn from it.
Also: Even if you do everything right and perfect you can still lose or die. As well as: Sometimes you win even though you screw up most things.
Applying these skills and learning in real life helped me a lot in the past.
I don’t think that CCP cares about keeping new players, they only give lip service to NPE.
Looking at the numbers, that’s exactly what’s been happening. CCP has the right to botch their game as much as they want, they seem to be content with providing boring PvE that doesn’t even provide players with the means to buy a ship within a reasonable amount of time ( and why would they when it’s more profitable to keep players logging in for longer and more often? ) and PvP that only benefits veterans, and players have the right to uninstall to their heart’s content. So, really, everyone is happy.
i would say why: this is one of the things rookie help channel fill their head with… there were so many new players obsessed with that idea… Was very hard for me sometimes to remind them “THE FUN” and fun doesn’t need a lot of hundred millions of isk…
IF a new player ask like "I wanna do PVP "the first thing they say is go and make lot of isk… and people begin to line up a long list of reasons "WHY THEY CANT "
I have entered the game with new fade alts so many times to just poke reactions. and record them.I would say… it’s very negative … even sometimes toxic.
This is the way Rookie help channel “frames” the need for ISK .
And another issue is Rookie help channel Indy and PVP focused corps herding center. They do Frame the mentality very clean and effectively direct players to these activities, they do underline , “safety” , “making isk” while negative framing all kind of PVP. PVP players are dirty, “bad people” is very common brain whashing there.
This is also a way they reflect their need for being in control and strong since they were just born into that universe. And they are aware of their own vulnerabilities.
When the cost of a ship and its modules worth a damn goes up to the hundreds of millions, it’s perfectly logical to think that one needs isk to play, and lots of it to sustain a level of play that keeps a player
Life requires money, EVE requires isk. It’s pretty simple.
Actually. i can see and sense this idea and why this is that much big urge for new players. You would like to try and experience lot of things and yes it boils down to ISK …But while new pilots running down after isk… they do miss a lot of fun which doesnt requires so much isk… In eve i just did what also i did in real life i did what i enjoy so isk making had been also part of the fun for me .( no i didnt pve for that either) .
As veteran… isk making never be issue because pretty much if i have 1b isk in my hand i can have fun with it and do PVP like 2-3 months at least so i dont even think about it … And when i need it… it takes only couple of minutes to make that …
Isk making is definately more issue for the new pilots yes… but as you said… like in real life… you start with a money you gain in any student job … new pilots has limited knowledge and understanding so that makes it very hard for you to build up wealth…
Eve requires lot of patience for a new player…
Two years ago, i have run an Event in Amarr 1.0 outside the the station for 3 weeks .
I did invite very new pilots for this event. And i have talk to hundreds of new pilots to invite them . I think aprx 600 pilots .
I kept 2 bowheads outside the station 12 hours everyday. Bowheads had been filled with fully proper PVP fitted T1 frigates for all races and fits were designed in a way that even one day old player can activate modules and experience different engagement strategies. And pilots had been allowed to reship unlimited , guidiance and help provided.
From this 600 pilots who has invited … only 34-50 of them attended.
I had dozens of insulting messages from pilots who blame me by trying to gang and scam new pilots …
couple of hundreds refused , they said they dont have isk and they need to make isk … i told them they dont need isk to attend and they can loot the wrecks of ships allowed. They said no .
Pilots who join these daily fights they hit over hundred solo and multiple killmails under a week. They lears pvp modules, fittings tactics… i even take them out for low sec fleets and once i take them as guest to @ greygal s null fleet.
I have clean out market in very short time and then i begin to hint those pilots what is lack in the market in any given time… as turn … for example there is no x module or condor in market they begin to bring it from outside region they sold condor hull for 5 mil and many modules like 500 % overpriced… thay have been laughing thinking who the hell buy those with that prices ? Why ?
They learn lot about market between these fights, they learn how to insta dock and insta undock and risk factors… they made possibly 1000 times more isk comparing to their peers … once we had been naughty enough to steal ■■■■ from gate camps… it was total nasty fuckery with lot of laughs… along with adrenalin and rush …
So… perspective… framing… understanding keep your heart mind open is very important values both in life as well as in game
Was it not CCP Ghost that gave us the supposedly unsuccessful drifter NPE?
Seen this kind of comment a couple of times.
New players don’t need to make lots of isk. They need to learn to fly what they can afford. It’s the whole; learn to walk before you can run.
It’s not the ship that’s holding you back, it’s the lack of knowledge. You could have the blingiest of ships and it isn’t going to make much of a difference. You are still going to lose a lot before you understand what’s happening.
Let go of the idea that isk will solve your problems. CCP tried that and it instead made things worse.
It’s a pretty important bias though, and totally justified.
When I look at what successful PvPers are flying on zKillboard, they ALL have level 2 modules.
Are you saying they don’t need those modules to be successful at PvP? I think not.
If you think that the requirement to become good at a sport is a professional level bat, ball and uniform, you have missed the point of playing entirely.
Its your bias, yes. It is a blinkered view of the masses and is entirely myopic.
Yea, but that was an event organized by you, it wasn’t the raw play of EVE.
Granted, it taught new pilots lots of things and I’m sure many of them have gone on to be successful at EVE but guess what, they still need isk to sustain their playstyles.