Main War declaration thread

(Whitehound) #822

How about you start by posting in the right forum section? This way you have a chance to look like someone who knows what he’s doing. Choosing the wrong forum, picking the first one that comes to mind, always looks foolish and ignorant. Try Features & Ideas discussion.

(Kharina Viliana) #823

Well It would seem to be a general discussion on the topic so a forum for general discussion would be best suited for its location. furthermore thanks for dropping by and leaving a comment on it, much appreciated.

(Solecist Project) #824

Hey could we talk about the topic instead of things around it, like “where it belongs” ? I think it’s fine here.

(Solecist Project) #825

I feel the need to tell you that CCP themselves made highsec feel very quiet and lonely. The great decline in local activity started some time in 2013 and got worse and worse until we got what we have now. Systems with lots of people in them and no one talking … and yes, the talking in local made a system feel way more alive already, way more than activity in space could do, ALSO because of the fact that these social interactions have had the tendency to end up as activity in space!

Your desire for more activity in space makes sense, but putting NPCs there shouldn’t be too much of a priority, because - basically - that’s the players’ jobs! You can thank CCP for making space boring. You can thank CCP for creating a situation where people don’t want to randomly talk to each other with whatever outcomes that might bring in space.

What’s a REALLY bad way moving forward is having CCP ruin something and then “fixing” that not by undoing the damage, but instead by building up on the broken thing. Like … they’ve implemented that chat bubble thinking it would get people to talk to each other more. That’s just so absolutely dumb, literally all of the community rejected it for various reasons, the upmost one being that it was a gigantic usability issue.

(Whitehound) #826

There’s no harm in fighting ignorance.

(Kharina Viliana) #827

Ah I understand. Thanks for dropping by and leaving a response much appreciated.

I feel as though since no one really talks to each other in local and there isn’t any real interaction
(other than in the trade hubs) why not have other things to look at and enjoy to take some of the loneliness away you know?

(Solecist Project) #828

Because, as I said, that’s not fixing the actual problem that makes highsec space feel lonely. Having more NPCs out there is not going to change the fact that social interaction in highsec is on an all time low and with more NPCs pretending to be players, someone could make the argument that there’s no need to ever fixing the broken state.

What you’re saying is, basically, that someone hurt his head with a hammer and now he has a headache. To fix the issue, he should be taking pain killers every day instead of going to the hospital fixing the damage. No, pain killers do not cause the reasons for headaches to go away, they just mask them out.

That’s, basically, why CCP should not touch this before fixing the actual issue. Back in the days I would have been completely on your side of this, because I too would have loved more NPC activity happening due to NPCs being “actual humans living on planets, heading to space” and that would have been great! Nowadays though doing this would only be like taking morphine instead of fixing the cause for the pain.

(Salt Foambreaker) #829

Paying NPCs to protect you in a war dec?

You realize players can do that?

-1 no.

(Nana Skalski) #830

And for sure you can trust every player with help, after he takes money, also who would take it always and have a clear tariff for everyone? :thinking:

(Salt Foambreaker) #831

If you will not work with others then you are doomed. :skull:

(Nana Skalski) #832

But that is nothing new, that is just a truism. :disappointed:

I wonder how much PvP corporations want for helping with wardeck now.

(Aetrid) #833

Careful what you wish for, OP, you might get it.

The idea was for players to do the things you refer to.

(Markus Reinhart) #834

EVE is about player interaction. You don’t need mercenary NPC, we have mercenary players

(Ima Wreckyou) #835

Every time I enter local, people start talking. I’m not kidding. Do you know why? Because I kill some miners and present a target and a challenge to the locals they didn’t have to face before. Some get angry, some get interested what is going on, some want to defend the others, some want to see how things are burning. Whatever they reason, people start talking in local because player interaction happens.

So you see, this is quite the opposite of what you propose. You try to lower player interaction by introducing more NPCs will not enhance the illusion that you play in a sandbox with other players. It will still look like an empty scripted game background without actual people.

(Neuntausend) #836

Somewhere between nothing and a whole ■■■■■■■ lot. It really depends on who they would be up against and what exactly the client expects them to do. If the client just expects them to join the war, look threatening and occasionally shoot the aggressor when they stumble across them by chance, there are groups around that would happily join the war for free, because in the end it just means that they don’t have to pay for more potential targets.

If it was me, though, I would charge a hefty sum if the client actually expected me to protect them and go after the aggressor. Think about what that would entail: Without the watchlist, the mercenary could not tell if any of the clients enemies are online. They could only hope to strike any blows to them by waiting close to where the client is, it would be a 24/7 job, and it would be mindnumbingly boring.

If the watchlist were still there, the mercenaries could do whatever they do, and only spring into action when enemies log in. And then they would not just need to camp next to where the clients members are running their missions and mining their ore all day, but actively hunt for the clients enemy by locating them when they are online and flying over there.

With the current state of the game, hiring player mercenaries is really not a good option to defend against wardecs. The solution to that should however not be to replace player mercenaries with NPCs, but to fix mercenary gameplay and highsec wardecs.

That is of course not an easy task by any stretch of the term. However, designing a whole bunch of NPCs to fill specific roles in player-on-player interaction would not exactly be a breeze either. Before time is sunk into adding more NPCs, problems with player-on-player interaction should be addressed.

If CCP were to take the other route and implement NPCs to fight for you, why should the attacker not have that option as well? One could also implement NPCs that mine for you, or run missions. And at some point it would just be NPCs against NPCs. NPCs should not fill roles that players can fill.

(Nana Skalski) #837

I once made a proposal that was meant to be RTS expansion, fights on planets for planetary infrastructure and who wins can loot the product and war would end. When DUST was not dead I actually proposed tying DUST players into it, as additional forces, sort of planned battle events.

Something like mercenaries with NPCs for in space structures, battles tied with wars, with project nova?

With Project nova being close, avatar improvements on the way, and some discussion about wars… but I dont think in current CCP it is feasible actually, even in future. They did some steps towards that with DUST, those battles when you could bombard planet. But back then more people were playing both games. Now with reduced dev crew and with less players playing EVE? If Nova will get a lot more people, I think CCP would just stay with it, not experimenting with tying both games together.

(Neuntausend) #838

CCP wasting a lot of development time has been a problem more than once in the past. Dust 512 was a dud, and gone were the plans to connect it and Eve. World of Darkness never saw the light of day, and Walking in Stations died with it. Sleeper incursions were buggy as hell, and CCP never managed to fix them, so they were removed. Resource wars are laughable, and nobody really plays them. All of that is a lot of time and money wasted, and I have no reason to believe that CCP have gotten any better at that now.

Abyss sites are broken, and we have yet to see if CCP will manage to pull them out of the mud. The Upwell structure rollout is still not done after 2 years, and even after all this time, those things are nowhere near universally loved, and there are still a lot of things about them that don’t exactly work well.

If it was for me, CCP would still focus mostly on keeping the game intact than adding more things to it. Not because I don’t like or want new things, but because they have proven time and time again that they simply are not good at making them.

An RTS like mechanic to gain control over planets would be awesome. As would be a 1st or 3rd person mechanic to explore ancient ruins or ship wrecks, like they have shown during fanfest presentations in the past. But I doubt that CCP is capable of making something like that. It’s not that their ideas are bad, and some of the technology they have developed is awesome, but they don’t have the endurance to actually bring those projects to a stage where they could be considered to be done and ready to play.

And Project Nova: No matter how good it will be, it will not have staying power. Even popular, competetive FPS games have an active lifespan of maybe 2-3 years, with only very few exceptions. After that, they quickly shrink to nothing, as players move on to newer games that offer the same mechanics and gameplay. If Nova does not get tied in with Eve (and I too doubt that this will happen), which has much greater staying power, there will likely be nothing keeping players playing it after a while.

(Solecist Project) #839


Worth mentioning that it actually was profitable, and would still be running if it had been on PC. That mistake is now being corrected with NOVA, and lore indicates that it’s right on track and getting closer.

There is actually quite some new World News coming up in recent times, which means that some things are happening.

Btw, if anyone else sees arabic letters on twitter … please tell me. I don’t use twitter, I did not change anything at all, yet for some odd reason it’s all in arabic or whatever that’s supposed to be.

(Lukett MyDabb) #840

i think that’s gonna go next to WIS in terms of improving the immersion but isn’t going to be worked on because it’d be considered unimportant.

(Lukett MyDabb) #841

i think if you scale back on some of what he asks and just put more NPCs buzzing around it’d be an uptick in immersion.