Musing on Triglav Society

[Annisir_Kaugan]

This is purely speculation but based on a solid foundation and stemming from a conversation on our comms relay.

The Triglavians use a lot of terminology that appear foreign to our ears and a number of proper names, which don’t appear to conform anything familiar.

Analysis of the Triglavian language is possible by using the same techniques as historical Linguistics, this has been used extensively within the Minmatar Republic for research into the movement and relatedness of the various tribes. The terminology used by the Triglavians seems to be, at least in part some form of archaism, as evidenced by diachronic linguistics. Meaning that some of the words they use resemble terms that formed the foundation of words that we use today. A Synchronic analysis of the Triglavian messages seems to indicate that they use a more symbolic form of expression, some terms change their meaning depending on the context of the message. All the people of New Eden share a lot of DNA, to the extent that we are all very similar at a base level and this has long been held as proof of our common origin, along with elements of language as well. From the elements of the Triglavian language it is fair to say that they also originated from this common stock. Scholars are working on the etymology of their archaic language and, while some terms appear to be unique, there are others where they can be split into recognisable fragments.

From early results I feel that we may be able to get a better picture of their society. The Koschoi/Narodnya/Navka enigma for one. The general aim of Triglavian society is to produce some ideal according to a scheme to winnow out weakness; everything has to be proven of value and in line with their moral code. This is what they refer to as the Struggle.

I was reminded of an old tale, its origins lost to us, and one I barely remember from childhood. It concerned a society where in order for a person to earn a name they had to kill some animal or perform some task of great value to the tribe. We attach great importance to names, our sense of identity can revolve around it. So it is not out of the question to assume the Triglavians do the same. Names like Zorya and Kresnik. The Koschoi, from what we know is some kind of authority, and the Navka references the past. It is very evident in the corruption incident intercepted by the Semiosis modules. There has been a lot of specualtion about their nature, but it might actually be relatively simple in comparison with some ideas, even ones I, myself, entertained.

The Flow appears to be some great repository of knowledge, things are uploaded to it and they store their decisions on certain matters there and refer to it for historical context, as in reverse-time. What if the Narodnya, which is now taken to mean the common people are the ones actually involved in the Struggle. The Koschoi supervise them through some kind of infomorphic link, I did think it might have been the case that they were actually hosting two infomorphs in the same clone, which is theoretically possible, but this would be easier and safer for the Koschoi, retaining their immortality. The Navka, and I am pretty certain their is only one, is some kind of software agent; an expert system that is able to search their knowledge base and come up with historical data. Which would mean that Zorya and Kresnik are Koschoi individuals who have won their Struggle and as such part of the Convocation of Triglav Ouside the Struggle. The Zorya ships we see, are not actually piloted by Zorya, but use a fit designed by Zorya. That to me makes perfect sense.

[Annisir_Kaugan]

Interestingly, the corruption incident and other semiotic intercepts reference a forbidden dominance arrangement. This could tie in with the way they supervise infomorphically but in a consensual manner.

[Vasily_Degtyaryov]

Let me preface this by saying that I have no evidence to credit the overall concept of your theory, but I’d like to present an opposing interpretation. There are also points that I agree on, but I will repeat those nonetheless to present the full working theory.

As we know, the Collective is divided into three Clades, and this is true in the broad sense, but each Clade may be seen as a nation unto itself, governed by its own internal structure comprised of whatever form their highest tier governing body takes, and from there split into subclades, like territories or provinces within that nation, themselves having their own “local” governments, and so on down to the plebian troikas, if in fact all Triglavians are part of troikas.

We know these Clades to be in perpetual competition. Every idea at every level is viewed from multiple angles, theorized from each viewpoint, and then ultimately tested at the appropriate level of their society. Even if entities agree on the expected outcome, they will put it to the test in what can only be described as the wet dream of any good corporation’s quality assurance manager. This is believed to be the “Struggle” to which their messages often refer.

Above each Nation-Clade’s government, is one more layer that we hear often about but don’t know as well as we should; the Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle. The name itself is fairly descriptive; a gathering of, or attributed to, the entity or entities called Triglav, which (either the gathering, the Triglav entity/entities, or both) operate from a position that does not itself participate in the aforementioned Struggle. The greatest mystery here is the entity/entities named Triglav.

While a great amount of religious connotation is gleamed from the Triglavians’ manner of speaking, I fully agree with comrade Kaugan’s assessment that this is not necessarily, in fact probably, not the case. Instead, it is merely a remnant of the (sub)society they were once a part of, and twisted through the millennia. It now seems more formal than anything else. To illustrate this I like to consider their word “prayer”, which in context merely seems to mean “(formal) request”.

As such, Triglav is likely not a god they worship, or even anything spiritual, though something of that sort may have once been the origin of the term. A hint is given by their most prominent figure, Detached Executive Troika Zorya Triglav. Evidently, it is a name or title granted to sufficiently prominent and trusted members of the Collective. The term Executive seems to imply that Zorya is not quite the greatest leader of the Collective, yet highly ranked enough to not only receive the Triglav title, but also the authority to operate independently (“detached”) without being directly subject to the decision making process of the Clades and only to that of the three minds in the troika named Zorya itself.

On the subject of their three lifeforms, I personally doubt that they are one type per clade, but rather each clade has a healthy if perhaps not equal mix of all three. Narodnya so far need little explanation; they are people as we know them, for the most part. The Koschoi seem long-lived if not immortal as infomorphs through means unknown and, as comrade Kaugan mentioned, seem to be in influential positions. This is presumable due to their long lifespans granting them a wealth of knowledge and experience where “lesser” creatures die off before reaching quite the same state. The Navka I partially disagree on, as I believe they are mostly individuals, without ruling out they have an interconnecting network of some sort. They do, however, seem to indeed be digital beings.

In a way it would make sense to assume that the lifeforms each make up a third of each troika as a result of the three rather distinct voices of Zorya Triglav herself, but given that the Koschoi specifically are implied to play specific (leadership) roles in their society, this seems unlikely, as that would imply that each troika is ruled by its Koschoi while the Collective seems to emphasize that anything must pass a proving between entities of equal level. Imagine sharing your mind with the CEO of your corporation. That said, if a Narodnya is not the host to the infomorph Koschoi and the AI Navka, then who or what is?

The Flow of Viraj from context sounds a lot like fate or destiny, perhaps more accurately from their non-religious seeming nature it could be called their prediction of the future, which they are confident enough about to say that it cannot be stopped. This is not necessarily in disagreement of comrade Kaugan’s assessment of being a repository of knowledge, but there seems to be more to it than merely that.

Finally I must mostly agree on the Zorya ships, but consider alternative possibilities such as them being pilots by troikas under Zorya’s direct authority, such as her special forces or elite guard.

This leaves questions like;

• How many other troikas exist that carry the title or name of Triglav?
• What does the name or title mean to the Collective?
• Do troikas only receive a single name, despite seemingly consisting of three souls, artificial or not?
• What kind of combinations of lifeforms are possible in various troikas?
• Are all Triglavians even part of a troika?
• Does a troika necessarily mean a sharing of the minds, or could they simply be teams of individuals?
• Are the compositions of troikas permanent (I expect not, due to differences in lifespans)?

For now, this should be enough to discuss. If anyone wishes to criticize, please make sure to quote the fragment referred to, to keep that as a record in case I wish to adapt the original text as a result of further discussion.

[Annisir_Kaugan]

Its definitely up for discussion, to me, and I think yourself, the only directly named Triglavians we have encountered are Koschoi. They have command authority and freedom of action within their remit. That is the implication of Detached. I am not sure about the Navka, there is a wealth of misapprehension about AI in general and a massive difference between a sophisticated and intelligently acting software agent and an independent artificial sapient digital lifeform. The Navka could lie somewhere between the two, perhaps at the level of a simulation of an infomorph, it has been mooted that this is the fate of those extirpated. It prevents their bloodline, or Clade from contributing to the future of the race.

The Flow isn’t simply a repository of information its actually many things. A grand design for how they will achieve a perfect society, constantly being modified by the actions of the population and acting as a cautionary tale of past failures.