Mining, ganking and forum pvp
No, EVE was designed to be this way.
Players have attempted to and have changed it over time.
The only definition that matters is EVE is an open world PvP game that once you undock, you consent to PvP.
The day that changes, it will no longer be EVE.
Don’t get distracted by the newbie argument. It’s a red herring.
Acually, it is what EVE is 
But I know you don’t like the truth so
LOL its funny you have the arrogance to think you know what I think the game is
Bear in mind bruv, I’m not even a ganker
But instead of taking action, undocking and AGing, you’re crying to daddy CCP to nerf ganking ROFL.
The irony huh
ROFL. Yea ok bud. You’re sad cause you suck at indy. We get it.
Oof. This right here.
You hit the nail on the head unknowingly. It’s his ego LOL. You gotta realize his in-game money matters to him. It allowed him to lord it over the newbs and the “Fortnite kids”. And now they can just swipe their CC and be just like him LOL.
Now just think about that for a sec. Yea man. The only thing to think about him is really pity to be honest.
Remember tho, he believes the skins are so much a distraction people will stare in awe and forget to turn on their guns or warp away, thereby losing
LOL so you want EVE to thrive but don’t want a mechanic where newbies can be effective to compete with an 18 year veteran. LOL. Yea, it’s an ego thing huh bud?
Get off my lawn and all that. And you out here trying to pretend to be the newb saviour.
LOL.
Heh. I love it when you tell on yourself
Finally, we agree on something!
I would hardly call these discussions.
Do you have some kind of weird Fortnite obsession?
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I too received a British education, Lucas. Idioms such as the one you mention are not peculiar to the English language; they occur in other languages, too (Arabic and Russian come to mind). The expression is not, however, idiomatic. Rather, it has become loose.
The term ‘pay-to-win’ was originally used to describe the buying of in-game significant advantage, in games which were otherwise free-to-play. I had to Google that, because I was unsure.
It was never in doubt, Lucas. Though I wonder that you manage to make such a dog’s dinner of stating, basically, that the term means whatever you wish it to mean…
You contradict yourself here. No eve was designed this way but players made it into what it is.
So you went full circle to agreeing with me that the players built the universe we live in. The markets, the emergeant gameplay, the very ships we pew in. That is what a sandbox is.
So, yes, you do have a weird Fortnite obsession?
What advantage is available through the so-called “pay to win” mechanics?
You can pay for an Omega subscription?
Anything else? No.
If EvE is pay to win - prove it. Swipe your credit card and win.
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This is my final response on this issue at this time, Lucas. Time is pressing! I’ll read a response, if you make one, but that’s it.
Correct.
“PAY TO WIN
in online gaming, the practice of buying in-game items
that give a player a very big advantage over others.”
Macmillan Dictionary definition
I take it that our British education allows us to agree that ‘very big’ can also be written as ‘significant’?
Eve is not so much about ships and stargates as about people. We are the content of Eve. There’s nothing stopping anyone creating strong characters and starting all over again with a new ‘people path’ that leads to new content. For those who get bored of the technicalities and the same old ships, they can simply endless re-invent themselves.
And the same applies ( getting back to thread topic ) for anyone who doesn’t want ‘ganked’ 20 times on their early killboard. They can simply take the lessons learned and come back stronger as a new character.
That gets old.
I did finally talk my wh friends to let me wd Goons. I would pay for everything just to get them to try it. Then came the last wd nerf.
I’m glad players can’t fly round with ( truthful ) tags saying ’ our alliance has 357 trillion ISK '. The fact that there’s zero ISK bragging rights in Eve and nobody has any idea what ISK anyone else has means ISK cannot be equated to ‘winning’.
I believe the definitions are important here. For me personally P2W is if I can get an advantage for real money, that I cannot get without real money. The last part being the important one.
In EVE this is not the case, because whatever you can buy for real money, I can buy for ISK. It may take longer, but since players have not started the game at the same time, that only works as an equalizer here for players who start at a huge disadvantage into a 20 year old running world.
But you cannot get premium modules that have better stats than those of a non-paying player, you cannot get better ammo or weapons, you cannot get Level VI skills or whatever. No matter if you invest $10.000 and I do not, if we meet in some random system, you in your ship and I in my ship, there is no benefit on your side. Whatever crazy blingfit you might have, I might have as well. Whatever boosterdrug, implant-set or abyssalmod you have, I might have as well. And you don’t know. You might have gotten it easier, but you have gotten not a bit what I couldn’t have as well.
I have no idea why previously sane people are now arguing black as white but it is amazing to watch.
Actually my theory is ego, or social conditioning.
One or the other
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It is known that majority of the players of any pay to win game have their own definitions of what pay to win is to justify them playing that game as their own definition excludes it.
The definition for pay to win is given and generally accepted (it seems that only those who play pay to win games and hate such games and would never play them, disagrees with this definition). EVE does fall under this definition, there is nothing to discuss because that is a fact.
Is EVE still balanced? Yes. Is it still fun to play? Yes. Can someone still achieve his dreams without paying? Yes. Is there a problem with pay to win itself? No if done properly which is the case of EVE.
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Um. That literally is the core design of EVE ROFL.
This doesn’t even make sense LOL. Not to mention most teenage Fortnite fans would never be into EVE LOL.
You realize most gankers are at least mid 20s and up right? As is most of EVE"s pop I’m sure.
You’re embarrassing bro
Not really. I should have been more specific. Player crying has made the game worse over time
You said if bro. You know what that means It didn’t happen. Nice try tho
That’s the crux of why Lucas is mad. He’s mad that peeps can buy ISK LOL. He had what he thought was a lot, built through years of effort. Then came along peeps just willing to buy it. Now he’s salty LOL.
So you don’t believe EVE is a sandbox? Are we all just dancing like puppets on CCPs strings in your mind?
Yep.
Lucas is wrong, you are right.
Well, one thing is for sure.
You are not amusing.
Sad!
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I’m going to put it to you that you are both right. Yes technically pay to win is defined in some places as any game where some advantage is gained through real world currency. Other definitions define that as requiring a significant advantage.
You also can take into account the individuals who are arguing here and the definitions they apply to it.
Language isn’t given meaning by dictionaries and encyclopaedia. Language is given meaning by common parlance and dictionaries and encyclopaedia exist to capture the status quo and give us common ground. They aren’t here to impede the evolution of language however which is why both have editions as words are regularly updated for new meanings, new words are added and older words retired.
We are living in a world where the Oxford English Dictionary contains LOL and # as defined words.
If a good chunk of the forum is saying that eve doesn’t qualify as pay to win unless the advantage is significant then the common parlance for the meaning of the phrase differs and both have to be accepted as valid. There is little point in trying to argue one meaning as right or wrong because you both hold different meanings. Yours supported by one source and the community you are talking to supported by their shared understanding.