I think it does solve the issue of Rorqs and Orca’s being perceived to mine too much when you end up having far less of them how I proposed?
Removing local is and always has been the solution to bot farming.
Exactly what Nev said, as far as CCP is concerned, there really isn’t a difference between PLEX and using your hard earned dollars.
Limiting ships based on how you get your subscription is simply not a good idea.
Removing local was fun for sure, but I wouldn’t want it to happen again.
Yes thanx it is just an idea floating in my mind about my desired direction for EVE, then again, everyone can desire their own way and is just as legit. Thanks for responding!
Yes at first I liked it, but then it made me feel to lonely, was really happy again seeing my corpdudes when local came up again… I also lived 6 months as a solo nerd in my lowsec WH, but then went back to null again.
Absolutely not. Under no circumstances should there ever be a differentiated PLEX-Omega and a $$$-Omega. There will be only one Omega equally redeemable by either mechanism, end of story.
There are better ways to address any problems involving mechanics or arguably undesirable player behaviors.
Yes, my point that I am trying to address is that I feel sad when Rorq’s get nerfed on the argument that they are overpowered, while I think them being multiboxed is the underlying problem of Rorq’s mining too much ore, not that they are overpowered on themselves as many times argued…
It’s sad that Rorq’s are overpowered. It doesn’t matter how many there are. Per their own description:
“The Rorqual was conceived and designed by Outer Ring Excavations in response to a growing need for capital industry platforms with the ability to support and sustain large-scale mining operations in uninhabited areas of space.”
They should have the ability to support large mining operations. Not out mine the very ships they were designed to support.
Rorq’s mining capabilities need to be nerfed by an order of magnitude for sure.
So, you want Rorqs to mine less than a venture and basically be relegated to an alt boat in the fleet right?
Because that’s an order of magnitude.
If that’s not what you meant, then maybe just maybe… actually use sensible statements.
I know what “order of magnitude” means, thank you very much
Rorq is supposed to be a support ship, not a mining ship. It’s mining capabilities should be relatively mundane compared to barges. I think one of the best things that could be done is to remove Capital Mining Drone rigs so that Rorqs are basically forced to be fitted for fleet support/defense rather than steroidal mining. Honestly, the same thing should be done regarding the Orca and Large Drone Mining rigs, not because solo mining Orcas are OP (they most certainly are not), but because mining should be collaborative and removing the rigs and would decrease their solo use and move people toward using barges and supporting barges with Orcas in fleet. If rigs are removed, then the drones/drone bonuses would, of course, be rebalanced to provide a reasonable “flat” mining yield for the Orca and Rorqual, but not one that can be extended further via rigs for solo mining on ships that are not intended to be mining ships.
CCP disagree, they clearly stated it & all the other boosting ships were meant to also be powerful mining vessels at the same time.
Given this that CCP clearly intend them to be actual miners as well… you are starting from a flawed premise.
You might be correct, I am not sure as I have not seen this stated anywhere (I’ve only ever seen CCP nerf their mining capabilities over the years), but what I can say is that I feel this should change regardless of the initial intention.
In the Dev blog when they changed them to the current design a few years ago. You obviously came in after that if you’ve only seen nerfs as they got an incredible buff at that time.
I’ve been playing EVE for 10 years . I only said I don’t remember, not that you’re wrong. That CCP has been consistently nerfing them over time and all indications are that they will continue to do so suggests CCP is reconsidering their original stance. Regardless, my main assertion, irrespective of CCP original or current stance, is that I feel the status quo should continue to carry the nerfing momentum in terms of mining capabilities: less focus on mining, more focus on support. I was fine with PANIC, for example, because that was relevant to the role Rorq should focus on.
I don’t feel that it’s reconsidering their initial stance as realising they made them too good. CCP haven’t nerfed them below a boosted hulk, so they clearly still intend them to be strong miners, they are just doing tuning tweaks.
I have no particular issue to them being below the level of a boosted hulk… but if they are dropped to that level they should be able to DPS and mine at the same time, and harvesters shouldn’t be so expensive or vulnerable.
Changing harvesters to be support fighters and making Rorquals have say… 2 support tubes 1 light fighter tube could be a way of achieving this. I’m not certain if this would introduce other issues, they might have to make a mining fighter category just to avoid abuse.
One thing CCP is trying to do is stop any one player from fulfilling too many roles or any one role to too large of extent. In other words, they don’t want any one player to fly a ship that is the equivalent manpower of several other players flying different ships. Take a look at Surgical Strike: The nature of the changes means that fleets are going to need additional logi of all varieties - frig/cruisers to a slightly larger extent than FAXes - in order to satisfy the needs that were previously taken care of by a handful of FAXes. Over the years, Rorqual rebalancing has taken a similar direction and should continue to do so.
A Rorqual should have a narrow niche that is performs exceptionally well, and leave all other functions to fleetmates. Its functions should primarily be restricted to:
- Command Bursts (mining/shield)
- Mothership, ie. offering a ship maintenance bay to store combat ships + fleet hangar
- Rudimentary shield logi
- Rudimentary mining capabilities. My proposal to eliminate L/XL mining rigs and rebalance drone bonuses on the Orca/Rorqual would make sure they aren’t fitted for solo mining to any greater extent than they would be otherwise
- Rudimentary drone defense, primarily for warding off rats and for supplementary damage against players flying subcapitals, but not as a means to solo them.
Introducing DPS (beyond basic drones) grossly extends the niche the Rorqual should be confined to, and also goes in the opposite direction when it comes to making mining a collaborative activity that demands the fleet maintain PVP-readiness (via miners swapping for combat ships and/or a presence of combat ships guarding the mining operation). Introducing DPS also makes it overpowered when it comes to taking out a lone Rorqual and makes it easier for botters to do their thing (especially where Drifters/Trigs are concerned).
Simply put, the Rorqual should be rebalanced such that it is invaluable in supporting a mining fleet but not be viable for use as a solo ship due to low throughput and defensive capabilities. The same should be true of the Orca.
The thing is this just delegates it to an inactive alt ship.
CCP have also been moving away from afk/alt based gameplay, which your proposal of the Rorqual moves straight back in that direction.
The idea of miners “swapping ships” or an on call escort fleet is a joke myth that is perpetuated by people. When it’s already some of the lowest income activity you aren’t going to get on call fleets. You might have the general alliance standing fleet but that isn’t specific to the miners.
This is true, but in the specific context of mining command ships I believe it is a necessary and acceptable exception to permit these ships to be largely AFK or run by alts. Not that they are ENTIRELY AFK, mind you… jet cans jettison frequently and targeting/tractoring them isn’t exactly passive even in smaller ops with only a handful of people. When gankers drop on you and you’re equipped with logi, you need to prioritize your reps. It’s not exactly hands on, but certainly no less than operating the mining ships themselves. (And if you really want to be hands on, you can always play Project Discovery .)
This is mostly true, but CCP has been making changes over the years that are making this more and more into a reality via necessity (trigs in belts, resource redistribution, etc), and those who fail to utilize this mode of operation will quickly succumb to gankers.
Particular points worth mentioning:
- The fact that you are fielding expensive ships to engage in a low ROI activity gives cause to defend those ships since otherwise they take forever to recoup their losses. That the majority of people fail to do so is their problem, but that does not serve as evidence to suggest that it isn’t a viable methodology or that mining without combat readiness should be the norm.
- Standing fleets aren’t always available; especially for smaller groups operating in HS. True, they aren’t fielding Rorquals in HS, but notion that an Orca harbors combat ships and, optionally, that the mining fleet could be defended is still applicable
- Resource distribution is reallocating a limited pool of resources into limited regions of space, thereby driving conflict over those limited resource in those limited regions. Many mining ops that take place in NS should shift to LS and from LS to HS for these materials, and as a result there will be more combat to fight over them. In the case of HS, you have a situation where either more wardecs will arise on groups sporting miners, or more suicide ganks will occur - in order to preserve the availability of those resources - against war-immune miners. (That, and more suicide ganks will occur anyway simply because there will be more miners.)
Basically I feel that the myth is already a reality among the smart players (who don’t have access to standing fleets at a moment’s notice), and will increasingly become a reality as a result of changes CCP has made and is continuing to make.