Ban Capital Ships from Low Sec - or - How to make Low Sec better (please)

No text really needed - just ban capitals (Dreads, Carriers, Supers, Titans) from Low Sec

THANKS

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How would you feel about just banning supercaps?

Capital ships are pretty easy to kill, it’s the supercaps that are oppressive. Dreads can be sig tanked or out-ranged really easily, carriers can be defanged really easily. Faxes have diminishing returns on repping now.

Coupled with the cyno changes, making it much more expensive to light a cyno (costs you a recon), vanilla capitals aren’t really a huge problem.

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Ban em all from all space I say

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Probably reasonable logic :slight_smile: but we know CCP - all or nothing and then don’t iterate/fix anything - so I was just channelling that mentality!

Be the change you want to see :wink:

Honestly the biggest part of a change like this that I would enjoy is the stealth buff to black ops.

Once supercaps aren’t prolific anymore, conceptually, something like a fleet of heavy tanked blops (I did a dual-tanked marshal fit once in pyfa that was utterly outrageous, even if it cost 17 bil with fit) would be able to counter-drop capitals. Their superior mobility would make dreads not be a problem (one MJD away and you’re laughing), and fighters are exceptionally vulnerable to the high damage output that a blops can dish out. Coupled with the ability to bridge in your support, they’d be able to go toe to toe with unsupported caps easily.

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I’ve previously suggested that EVE have a ‘progression’ of ship size limitations across security space, like:

  • 0.7 - Frigates
  • 0.6 - Destroyers
  • 0.5 - Cruisers
  • 0.4 - Battlecruiserss
  • 0.3 - Battleships
  • 0.2 - Dreads and Carriers
  • 0.1 and under - all ships

With Industrials/Freighters/Haulers able to go anywhere, some limitation on higher mining barges and vessels. The idea being to give players a progression path where they can start learning to risk/use ships without having to deal with ridiculous matchups like poking into low sec and get dropped on by somebody’s hunter-killer group.

However, if that change was too much, simply making it so 0.4 and 0.3 were Battleships and under, 0.2 and 0.1 were dreads and carriers, and 0.0 and below allows Supers and Titans would probably change the dynamics of game play in an interesting fashion.

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Recently there was a thread where the guy wanted supercaps in hisec…

We new eden forum-scribblers are an odd lot, eh?

I like your idea better. Although perhaps rather than an outright ban, I think I’d like to see supercaps and such destroyed in some sort of game-wide cataclysmic combat scenario.

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Would require some additional thought, killing a keepstar in HS with frigates would be like living with cancer in the 9th circle of hell.

I’m not sure I’d be quite so granular with the restrictions, maybe starting with cruisers in >=0.7 to battleships <=0.5, with caps permitted in <0.5 and supers permitted in <=0

The biggest problem I see is that kills a big part of the sandbox. Subcaps in particular are never really THAT oppressive against other subs.

I almost want to like this idea, but I think it is too restrictive - and problematic when it comes to Eve mapping of systems and sec status.

I like the 3 tier approach of Sec space already in Eve, and I think that should be sufficient - all sub caps in HS, maybe normal caps in LS, and Supers only in Null

I’d also like to see some retrospective restrictions on Citadels and changes in mechanics (killing them timers).

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Reserve super carriers and titans for 0sec maybe if at all. Although I am generally becoming more careful about any game nerfs, there is also as big amount of paying players really enjoying their capital gameplay

See… I’d be hard-pressed to call it ‘enjoying’. They enjoy their umbrellas, they enjoy dropping on things. But honestly, is it really that fun?

It’s no different than running around a single player FPS with cheats turned on. AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA boom boom.
Then you realize that it’s not a challenge, and you stop having fun because “eh… what’s the point?”

The only reason they like it now is because they’ve become dependent on that crutch. PVE activity doesn’t happen without a capital umbrella. As a nullsov line member, the current direction from the higher-ups is “if you want to be rescued by the standing fleet, keep a recon ready to light a cyno when the FC calls for it”. The cyno changes didn’t really help, they just made a cyno cost a couple hundred mil. Which isn’t much considering what you’re saving.

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Why not both? That would be hilariblobs

Hahaha ban from lowsec and add to highsec.

I want to see that just for the rage in the forums. There’d be so much salt that our planet would end up a barren wasteland.

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winning is always fun

Winning is always preferable. Go bash an empty citadel or three, and tell me if you had fun even if destroyed their structure.

Winning is preferable because in Eve failure (and sometimes even success) comes at a cost. People don’t like costs. Yes, winning a fight is always going to give you that little dopamine hit, but it’s a cheap and small hit when they never stood a chance. Much like the FPS cheats I mentioned, it gets boring.

I don’t even log on when they ping for standing fleet caps anymore. There’s more than enough to protect our assets, I’d far rather continue whatever else I was doing than sit there for a few minutes babysitting a sieged rorqual after we push off the attackers.

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Did that very recently. For a 100mil cost (opposed to 20m when I was doing it before) and 8+ day second timer for specific hour in a day and then getting no loot besides ~70m salvage is not a fun. Even if that citadel isn’t empty, if defender is online and sees he has no chance to defend it he just strips all modules and the result is the same, you get nothing out of it.

So yeah, that is boring as ■■■■ as it takes quite a lot of effort and time to do it even if it is not defended.

On the other hand, while shooting guarded citadel was much more fun, it took me full hour to do that (since I had to use several logis and my dps got lowered a lot). Shooting citadel for hour where the defender had no chance to break my defense, but still kept firing missiles and switching targets each minute was even more boring and cancerous than to shoot empty one.

With the wardec changes, this kind of content is really not worth it anymore…

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100% agree. An actual fight is fun, and it’s a huge rush winning one of those (second only to winning a fight where you were outmatched). One where they’re a force you actually have to fight and not just faceroll over. THAT is the kind of content I want to see more of. Content where two comparable forces are colliding.

I remember one time we were outnumbered 3 to 1. Our doctrine was a decent counter to theirs (I’m not sure why they brought it, we were roaming their space), and our FC was one of the god-level FCs that just knows his ■■■■. We ultimately wiped the floor with them. I’m not even sure how he can pull victory off so well, but as Sun Tsu said, All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.

I’m not at all against the sandbox matra of “if you’re in a fair fight you did something wrong”, but fighting with an overwhelming advantage, while conducive to success, is not fun.

Alright I’m gonna as a very newbie question, but: is this actually a common occurrence? Are people actually bringing capital ships into Low-Sec regularly?

Can anyone advise where this is happening regularly? I would like to see this for myself.

Devoid has a fair few

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I don’t like the granularity either, really. And the problems with travel I mentioned in my original post on this idea.

The primary idea however, is to enable players, especially newer players, to engage in “limited risk activity”. So, not transitioning from “almost no risk” (high sec) into “Death Valley” (everywhere else).

The limit-by-security idea is to provide something that could be done with actually minimal changes or new mechanics - because CCP doesn’t really have a competent coding team. So gate limits and size restrictions are something we already have coded. It was also to provide a similar progression from “big ships” to “really big ships”.

Fewer/wider tiers could work. Ban Supers/Titans in low would have some effect, but would still give most players the “move from almost-safe to killer-deadly in one jump” barrier.

We could also have some new regions that could be jumped into that only allow say T1 frigates->cruisers. Use some of the lesser used systems. They just need to be accessible to especially newer players, but basically all players who simply want to dogfight in ships of size X without having to worry about getting ridiculously overmatched as soon as the first scout spots them.

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