And in a timing that is uncanny, there’ a whole other thread on where OP wants the popup to say “you’ll probably be destroyed” because surely that specific text would have fixed their behavior:
The core gampeplay loop of Eve Online for any mechanic anywhere is:
Research / Plan
Prepare
Execute
Fail
Learn
Go to step one
These 2 threads are prime examples of people having to “learn the hard way” and failing in Step 4. However, rather than internalizing the lesson and learning in step 5, they blame anything about the game they can put their hands on.
Is there a popup? No? Well it’s the lack of a popup.
Oh, there a popup. Does it have the text that I require? No? Well it’s because it’s not that text.
Oh, there’s a popup and it warns about consequences? Well then it’s just a bad game.
Nowhere in this ego-defending line of thought the real lesson:
“Man it really really sucks this happened to me. I should find friends that can educate me about contraband, do more research next time on what Triglavians are, and take it as a sign I need to learn and research more about these mechanics so it doesn’t happen again.”
I get it sucks losing 5 billion or being 21 M isk in the red. But don’t twist this sympathetic moment as an ugly excuse to evade taking personal responsibility.
The purpose of the warning is to warn, not to give background information.
With any added text beyond a simple warning you risk losing the attention of the reader, which undermines the purpose of the warning. The warning could have included information about the penalties and a long list of systems and regions these items and other contraband items cannot enter, but every additional word lessens the chance a player will actually heed the warning. After all, if you are trying to undock, would you read through 8 paragraphs of text on a popup that blocks your undock, or click ‘OK’ and be done with it?
A warning should be short and to the point to successfully warn people: “an item in your cargo is contraband somewhere.”
@Io_Koval
The text would help, so again we just disagree. Some would skip it, but others would be saved. You insinuating what I’m capable of learning and growing from is a bit uncalled for. You’re teaching me alot about the Vets in the game and what type of community this is, so at the very least the thread isn’t a total loss. I remember calling myself another stupid player crying about losing the game, but maybe I was wrong and needed to get that ego out of the way
I’ve done what was asked of me, first ingame(by creating a ticket as instructed by the rookie chat/my corp) and then by the GM who responded back(and told me it’d be a good idea to share the information here), so yeah I feel like I’ve taken responsibility and done what I was expected of me. Sorry if that bothers you.
@Gerard Are you just being hyperbolic on purpose?(ofc) I gave a concise one sentence descriptor, barely a line of text. You took the suggestion and ran with it off a cliff for what purpose?
Sorry, I must have missed that one sentence, because you have written a lot more than that. See how easy it is to miss an apparently important part if information if it is surrounded by a lot more information?
A warning should be as short as possible while containing the bare minimum amount of information to allow you to know what to look into. Example:
This warning is short and to the point.
It tells you what is dangerous (item in cargo is contraband somewhere) and which item it is (slaves).
No further info necessary for a warning, you now have all the means to figure out what is happening. You can read the information panel of the slaves, ask friends, search online on ‘contraband’ or do whatever it is to make sure you know what this warning is warning you for.
I do not believe the warning becomes more effective if it becomes any longer. At the contrary, I believe it becomes less effective the more words you put on the popup.
What kicked this all off, and completely uncalled for, was two things:
lying about there not being a pop up message in the first place
calling me “jaded”
You can say the words “I’m taking responsibility” but everyone can see your actions here are not actually that in practice. It is not uncalled for, it is stating how people see your actions. Don’t like it? Change your behavior.
I’m not the one with a -21 M ISK balance, the only thing that bothers me is how predictably quickly defensive rookies get when they make mistakes.
Again, it sucks you had to learn the hard way. I really do mean that. What sucks even more is your belief that the game needs to be changed, and on the community, instead of internalizing the lesson yourself and growing from it.
Lol what did this game do to you? I’m getting more and more afraid of logging back in if these are the long term effects.
I didn’t lie, I gave my experience how I remembered it. You lack the passion to make the game better, hence jaded. This change would never effect you. It’s not for you, it’s not even for me anymore, its for new players.
If I was that bent out of shape about this I’d be demanding my isk back, begging from my corp or in various chats. I didn’t vow off the game, try to hold it hostage on my terms by threatening to leave, or call it terrible. I did someone a favor. You obviously don’t like me or my approach, cool. My corp was pretty nice, offered to help me pay out some of that debt. Some random dude who heard me asking questions in rook chat mailed me 3mil no strings attached. The GM who spoke with me was super nice, helpful, and gave amazing insight. Most of this community IS great. Same as the game, it’s great. You though, I’ll keep you separate. You just seem like a POS. Can’t wait to hear how I’m wrong next time.
I, for one, am sorry that the dialogue has ended up this way.
Whatever I said to offend you, it wasn’t intended to do so. It is a simple ask, for you to embody the loss, find friends and strangers to help bail you out, Great! But don’t ask changes for the game specifically under the belief, „if only“ they were there, that it would have stopped you from doing so.
Make the changes, edit the message, improve the game, that’s great! However it’s a fine line between „here’s a game mechanical change, and I’m going to work on myself“ to believing „here’s a game mechanical change, and it would have stopped me“ which is all the distinction I am trying to make.
But oh man has that nuance somehow festered negatively into your perception of me.
The difference between us is I don’t call you „naive“ (the contra-insult to „jaded“) and certainly don’t call you names like „a piece of sh*t“.
You worried about becoming a toxic member of the community? Congratulations, you’re already there. I’m still not holding my breath.
Good Lord, the mental gymnastics this dude is doing to absolve himself -or at least in his own mind- from taking responsibility for his own stupidity.
The “pop up has too much warning info in it, so naturally I ignored it, and I won’t heed it until CCP words it in precisely the manner that I deem fit to pay attention to it” speel is a new one.
“Gee officer, I didn’t pay attention to the speed limit sign because it didn’t tell me exactly what the punishment would be if I didn’t follow it. And it has to explain it to me in more than two words, but less than five. And the sign should in blue Helvetica font on a yellow background, except at nighttime where it needs to be in Times New Roman font, that is white, on a burgundy background, otherwise I just won’t pay attention to it. And that’s not my fault that the government didn’t issue signage and the warning in that precise format. So naturally I’m not at fault.”
Sensitive? Gotta leave wiggle room so I said you “seem” like that. Only you can control that perception. You can’t call people names per the rules of the forum. Insert joke about reading rules
You trying to say over and over what would and wouldn’t have worked for me is pretty egotistical. You’re not me. You have no idea what would benefit me, so just stop. Also while your at it don’t tell me what/or how its okay to ask something. That’s literally what this place is for and why I was told to post here. My motive is pretty crystal clear, to serve the community as asked. What’s yours?
To end on something positive, next patch looks dope. Hope nobody freaks out if there’s a minor text update in it.
@Ax_l_Thorne
Not even talking to you, but sure hey, come on down, everyone’s invited. Take offense however you please. Oh wait, there’s nothing here to add to the discussion. Cool cool. See ya tomorrow.
For Geo:
I’ll drop one too
“Laws were made to be broken”
It doesn’t validate an argument in any way, but its fun I guess.
Just for those joining us anew and don’t want to go thru everything I’ll boil it down super easy.
Argument
An additional line of text would help a new player or new to trading in handling contrabrand avoid a potential neg ISK balance.
Counter arguments
No it wouldn’t
More text - less incentive to read
Devs got enough to do, leave 'em alone
Unrelated to actual argument, but still worth noting:
Games fine, git good
You were breaking the law by carrying slaves into certain regions, and could have done successfully had you brought the right ship. I’m pretty sure a fast cloaky blockade runner for example would not have been caught.
But you did get caught, which is also part of breaking the law.
I’m not the one with a -21 M ISK balance, the only thing that bothers me is how predictably quickly defensive rookies get when they make mistakes.
on the community, instead of internalizing the lesson yourself and growing from it.