On the ndokassi discovery - who do you think has jurisdiction?


Ok, this is the question: a professional circle of Vherokior working on discovery of things on their land finds a thing dating back to a time when that land was (what later became) Brutor.

Who has jurisdiction over who gets the thing?

Foreigners and Born-in-Darkness: Note that I am not asking who the thing belongs to, though by all means express your opinion on that too, if you like. I am asking who gets to decide. Who has jurisdiction is often a lengthier phase in Matari disputes than the actual court proceedings.


I think that as it’s a dispute between circles of different Tribes, the Tribal Council has jurisdiction, really. I’d think they should establish a working group of Brutor and Vherokior lawyers, probably with a mediation trio from the Krusual, Sebiestor, and Thukker tribes, and observers from the Nefantar and Starkmanir, to delve into the matter and prepare a report to inform and advise the Council on this matter.

Edit: just to clarify, as I’m kind of… recovering from a poisoning incident… I expect the actual resolution to be worked out by the working group, and then the Chiefs just sign off on it.


While I have absolutely no stake in this and so will refrain from expressing opinions on the merits of the matter, this is a topic that will certainly engender much interest. Best of luck to the Matari in resolving this peacefully and productively.

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This was my thought as well, though ideally all of the other tribes should probably be limited to observation, or only mediating by request of the Brutor and Vherokior.

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I won’t claim to know as much about the Matari as you do but given where it was found and what the origin of the artifact was, I would think that would be an obvious choice…

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We’re Matari. We don’t do “obvious” very well, especially in cases where there’s a chance we might get to share our opinions.


This dispute should be settled by legal representatives of the respective tribes , with the Tribal Council appointing a team of mediators from the other tribes. As such I would like to echo Arrendis in that the jusisdiction falls under the Tribal Council, and her structure seems sound.

Are you saying my opinion isn’t specific enough or you dislike my use of the term “obvious”?

Neither; I’m riffing off of how stubborn we Matari can be.

Your opinion is very welcome, and there’s nothing wrong with your terminology at all.

Ah okay, fair enough. Misunderstood. Having lived in Minmatar space half my life…I’ve definitely seen the stubbornness…


Technically, I agree.

In practice, Tribal Council sitting judge over a property dispute between two professional circles? There’s no kill like an overkill, I guess.

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I’m unfamiliar with things, but it sounds like the finding of these ndokassi intact is more than have ever been found before across all the tribes. Which I’d think makes it of massive cultural significance?
I’d certainly expect high government levels to be involved anywhere else for a find this significant. Though I’d also expect it to take a while to filter up there as each lower level eventually escalates the dispute unless they reach a compromise.

Well, if we go that way (“massive cultural significance”) then I suppose it’s not between just Brutor and Vherokior, but also other tribes could make a shared claim?

And I am not sure anyone wants that.

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I was just taking that from the news article and what it seemed to indicate, the accuracy of which I can’t speak to nor how other tribes will take the importance.

Is there some kind of shared cultural museum or anything, I may fly in Minmatar space often, but I don’t go dirt side much.

Well, that’s why I say that they’d probably task the matter off to a working group, and then just ‘accept the recommendations’ along the way somewhere in a larger session of work.

Ugh. I mean, it might be of that kind of significance, but really, the rest of us should just butt out, same as the Republic shouldn’t have gotten involved over Midular. It’s a matter between the Brutor and Vherokior. The Council’s jurisdiction here shouldn’t be taken as an invitation to meddling on the part of the other Tribes. We’d object if they did it to us, you know?

That makes sense for a view, guess we just wait and see for the rest of it.
I’m interested as well… if a disturbance gets big enough it will spill over into space and impact things there.

Yes. You’ll be able to hear the representatives’ shouting from Derelik.

I think that can only be determined after finding out what even is the thing being argued about.

I mean, for all we know, those things could contain thousand year old milk. Who wants to fight over spoiled milk?


Biological remains, so we may be talking about well-maintained corpses. Or poop.

coughs loudly

All right, to be serious, the ndokassi likely contain artifacts of high value based merely on how old they are/what period they’re from.

The ndokassi themselves are actually highly valuable, if you’re into old tech, based on the fact that they supposedly still work.

The contents seem to date back to Brutor times, so whatever’s inside will probably be of extra value to them. Especially if it really is from a lost circle.

So, in short, we’re probably talking about something with high archaeological value but no monetary value. I mean, archaeologists will find something great even about centuries-old milk.

The place of the finding, the circle having made the excavation are vherokior. The first juridiction to speak is Vherokior, then.
Now, according to the article, it is obvious most of the legacy found is Brutor. A brutor voice should be heard as well. And if an agreement can’t be reached, the authority of the Tribes is called.

Most of the legacy found, the vessel and the content especially, is Brutor. That the bearers of another legacy tries to open, make sense of it, and there will be most probably waste, loss, feud.
Yet the fates have put this legacy to sleep on Vherokior soil and to be found by them: they should have a word and ear on what is to be studied.

Much has been lost, and will never be found. That the few memories and the shadows remaining are used as pride against kin is a shame. Whatever the bloodline, people who are not eager to share the legacy are not worthy of it.

The lesser shame is that it would take time so an agreement is reached on this.