One Way to Balance High-Security Space 🗡

[Qia_Kare]

You can say cynical. I only take offense to someone saying something with the intention of being mean. If you’re just calling a spade a spade because that’s the way you see it, then I don’t take exception to that.

I do mean ‘novel’ as in ‘unique in the MMO gaming space’.

[Omnis_Decline]

@Scipio_Artelius

@Arya_Yeshe

There’s games that if you are farming resources a recaptcha will pop up, if you fail then you can’t use that skill for many hours.

That would really suck tbh. The game has plenty of activities (mining first among them) that are not end-game content, but necessary chores along the way. All of them are boring.

CCP doesn’t have an issue with AFK play of the game and people should be able to make that choice without having to worry about verifying to the client that they are ATK.

They just need to also accept that there can be consequences for not being at the keyboard and if they lose a ship, don’t whine about it.

You (both) seem to be missing that this game already has its anti-AFK mechanic. Gankers are how the game encourages players to be at their keyboard. The “recaptcha” is knowing how and when to run. And the penalty for failing is the cost of a new ship, and the loss of whatever time you’d spent mining since you last docked up.

I think that’s a better system than the normal one, personally. But I’m a hisec miner who doesn’t pay his permits, what would I know? On which topic… Current death count: 1. Tutorial scripted death. 2. Died to NPC pirates in lowsec becasee I was doing a magical mystery tour in a corvette. 3. Died to players because my magical mystery tour found its way into nullsec and a couple of players thought I was a diversion in preparation for another corp attacking their territory. I’ve had a few times I’ve had to interrupt my short lowsec mining trips to go home before my hold was full, but that was worth it to get half a load of ore back to safety and make the sale.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Count_Vlad_Tepes1

@Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras

Any interaction with another player is pvp.

Wrong!

ver·sus

/ˈvərsəs,ˈvərsəz/

preposition

1. against (especially in sports and legal use).

“Penn versus Princeton”

• as opposed to; in contrast to.

Are you a real Count? Am I speaking to minor Royalty here?!

I have addressed this issue of defining PvP, in this very thread, Count. Perhaps it slipped your Royal mind.

For the record then:

PvP stands for ‘Player versus Player’, where ‘versus’ is

‘From Middle English versus, borrowed from Latin versus
(“facing”), past participle of vertere
(“to turn, change, overthrow, destroy”).’

usually translated as ‘against’.

Thus, ‘PvP’ defines the relationship between contending players.
It says nothing about the nature of the activity in which they are engaged.

You are welcome to disagree, Count, but I would appreciate a coherent, lucid rebuttal far more than a tired reiteration of your position, accompanied by a stuck-out-tongue; that would hardly be in keeping with your elevated status.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Omnis_Decline

You (both) seem to be missing that this game already has its anti-AFK mechanic.

Really? My alt is AFK right now.

Can’t wait for this anti-AFK mechanic to take care of that.

But to quote:

@Scipio_Artelius

They just need to also accept that there can be consequences for not being at the keyboard and if they lose a ship, don’t whine about it.

[Omnis_Decline]

@Scipio_Artelius

But to quote:

@Scipio_Artelius

They just need to also accept that there can be consequences for not being at the keyboard and if they lose a ship, don’t whine about it.

Yes, but you’re implying that this isn’t an anti-AFKing mechanic. Which it is. Which was the point I was making in saying that it’s the game’s anti-AFKing mechanic. I’m a little surprised you missed that.

[Ax_l_Thorne]

@Count_Vlad_Tepes1

Why? Are you afraid AG might gain some traction?

Where did you get that from?

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Lucas_Kell

organised wars as nullsec groups often do

… wha ? “oh let’s have a war” ? You really are clueless how nullsec works and especially doesn’t work.

Here’s a “funny” thing to think about: The last major war, WWB2, was anything but consensual. In fact it was an effort to kick one of the largest groups of players out of the game. Yes, OUT of the game. That was literally the call that was made by the instigator. If the EULA were applied… what would the conclusion be ? Would it fall under griefing ? Or does that only apply to individuals ? Or only the ones you happen to like ?

@Lucas_Kell

like how people in highsec doing things can be blapped by any random veteran bored of botting in nullsec.

@Lucas_Kell

The CSM has been increasingly ineffective year-on-year and has always pretty much been dominated by nullsec voices.

@Lucas_Kell

He’ll just be replaced by another one.

@Lucas_Kell

because every single change seems to be based around how to feed nullsec

Lay off the hatred, man. Is there any game aspect or player group you do not hate ?

Also, what about wormholers ? It isn’t often they manage to get a w-space player elected. This year they did, because they overcame their internal differences. Why does hisec not do the same ?

@Lucas_Kell

I just personally don’t think that consensual PvP makes space inherently unsafe

This doesn’t say what you actually are trying to say … just saying … And New Eden is meant to be unsafe.

@Lucas_Kell

@Brisc_Rubal

Ganking has been nerfed into the ground.

Not even a little bit true. It’s still ludicrously easy for one person to rack up thousands of kills.

Hmmm, more tokens of being clueless or manipulative. Let’s see:

• input broadcasting
• no longer insurance payouts for gankers in hisec
• low slots for freighters (doubling/tripling their ehp)
• extra mid slots for exhumers, doubling their ehp
• bumping nerf

If anything, this is proof that catering to the weak, lazy and manipulative never reaches an endpoint.

As far as I can tell, you’re just making populist remarks, without grounds, without so much as a genuine thought.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Omnis_Decline

Yes, but you’re implying that this isn’t an anti-AFKing mechanic.

It’s not a mechanic at all. It’s a playstyle that uses various mechanics.

So show me the specific anti-AFK mechanic that stops my alt from being AFK right now?

There isn’t one and that’s the way it should stay. Let players sort it out and not put captchas (or any other mechanic) that forces a player to be at the keyboard.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@MB_ThePhotographer

I would like to know where some players get the impression that HS is safe? All the adds that I see say how dangerous the game is.

They create the perception when they need to.

I’ve mentioned before that I play lots of PvP survival games. I have countless times experienced killing a player, only for them to start bitching in chat about how I “griefed” them and that they were “being peaceful” etc. etc. Then they go on the forums and ask for PvP toggles. Once again, PvP survival games.

People download games without reading anything about them, even just the basic two-sentence description in the upper-right of the Steam window. Then they throw hissy-fits and tantrums when the games end up being something completely unexpected. I’m just chalking it up to human nature at this point. That, and understanding what being “of average intelligence” entails, and remembering that roughly half of all people are below that level.

Observe some gank victims in their natural environment (there are many avenues for doing so, like the WWIG channel, TiS Discord, etc). The grand majority of those people aren’t people that I would say are of average intelligence or higher. You can tell by the way they type, what they say, and their general demeanor. I would bet the entire pot that being an angry gank victim and being stupid are very much positively correlated.

@Lucas_Kell

I just personally don’t think that consensual PvP makes space inherently unsafe

But when I said that exact same thing, you disagreed?

[Omnis_Decline]

@Scipio_Artelius

@Omnis_Decline

Yes, but you’re implying that this isn’t an anti-AFKing mechanic.

It’s not a mechanic at all. It’s a playstyle that uses various mechanics.

So show me the specific anti-AFK mechanic that stops my alt from being AFK right now?

There isn’t one and that’s the way it should stay. Let players sort it out and not put captchas (or any other mechanic) that forces a player to be at the keyboard.

This was me using “mechanic” in a more broad sense than you, sorry for the misunderstanding. o7

@Qia_Kare

I think Scipio was mainly making a case for keeping capchas out of Eve, and as an aside, remarked that if the current ‘anti AFK’ system causes ship loss, then thems the breaks and the pilot should quietly take their lumps.

And thank you for this explanation of the point being made as well.

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

@Lucas_Kell

No such thing. The CSM has been increasingly ineffective year-on-year and has always pretty much been dominated by nullsec voices.

If ccp doesnt wanna listen to the csm its not the csms fault. Their ineffectiveness stems from ccp listening but not implementing and doing things their way

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

Indeed, like how people in highsec doing things can be blapped by any random veteran bored of botting in nullsec.

That’s literally against what he’s saying

And those peeps being blapped are veterans too

@Lucas_Kell

Not even a little bit true. It’s still ludicrously easy for one person to rack up thousands of kills.

Only because other people are bad at the game

@Lucas_Kell

No such thing. The CSM has been increasingly ineffective year-on-year and has always pretty much been dominated by nullsec voices.

Oh? Then you run

@Lucas_Kell

He’ll just be replaced by another one. The voting system doesn’t really work when you have organised groups instructing the votes for tens of thousands of accounts, many of which only exist to vote then go back to alpha. A one vote per actual person system would go a long way to fixing some of the issues.

LOL

@Lucas_Kell

Sure, because every single change seems to be based around how to feed nullsec. Between allowing people to sell skillpoints and allowing nullsec groups to harvest broker fees from people buying and selling plex and SP, they’ve effectively switched on a money printer for null. 100% of fees for Pilot’s Services items should be a sink, and null sec groups should not be skimming of the top.

Someone seems salty

@Lucas_Kell

At the expense of thousands of other players playstyles. Just like wardeccers were “playing the game the way they want to play the game” while people trying to get corps up and running were punished for doing so.

That’s the game they signed on to play

@Lucas_Kell

I just personally don’t think that consensual PvP makes space inherently unsafe

All PvP is consensual

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Count_Vlad_Tepes1

People on the same team don’t oppose each other.

People on the same team aren’t usually contending among themselves (there are exceptions), thus the term ‘PvP’ would normally be inappropriately applied to such relationships.

The explanation I gave, above, arose because of repeated assertions that ‘ganking isn’t PvP’. It clearly is so - as is any contentious activity in a video game.

I will admit that I am in the wrong if you show me that I have erred in my application of the definition. For example, I was not writing about people being ‘on the same team’. If you were doing so, then I unreservedly apologise for my mistake.

But as I have indicated, above, it is quite possible for members of a team to oppose one another in, for example, achieving a top score or some other coveted thing. It occasionally leads to fisticuffs, I’ve heard. That would be PvP.

Now, I must shut up shop for the night!

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Count_Vlad_Tepes1

I don’t see Sirppala listed HERE.

Nah. Its the stuff that’s been pushed by you lot on the back of Fanfest:

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Most_Moliko

players will continue to post about it, over and over and over again

You mean that tiny, but very vocal minority who still don’t have a clue about the nature of the game, become poisonous when they get resistance and throw more tantrums when they’re offered advice while all they want is to reshape the game to their own little perception ? The same little crowd that uses any means, any forum and talkshows ?

The “over and over again”, that is a real poison on these forums.

@Most_Moliko

So just because high sec has no representation in CSM you all just act completely disrespectfully to comments

Do you see the “nerf ganking” crowd being respectful towards e.g. the nullsec players ? Or, bob forbid, gankers ? It looks like having a CSM rep has nothing to do with “respect”. And it sure doesn’t look like you want a dialogue either.

If, on the other hand, the “nerf ganking crowd” would be open to help from people who know how to play the game and avoid most of the pitfalls, they would gain a lot more respect. So far they have lost all, without improvement in sight. You don’t want respect, you want your way. Sorry, the game was taken for what it is two decades ago, and it has never been “new player friendly” nor “safe”.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Most_Moliko

Sure, nuke the thread and someone will post another thread just like it. Until this mess is addressed, players will continue to post about it, over and over and over again. So just because high sec has no representation in CSM you all just act completely disrespectfully to comments. You might want to make sure high sec has representation.

My guy, ganking isn’t hard to avoid.

Just learn to EVE

@Scipio_Artelius

Is every other highsec focused player impotent in terms of their abilility to do anything?

Pretty much

[Most_Moliko]

@Scipio_Artelius

@Most_Moliko

You know very well high sec can’t do that

Mike Azariah was able to gain enough votes for years on the back of being a highsec carebear (noting that Mike was one of the most effective community reps on the CSM in his time and still CCP didn’t deliver the carebear paradise some of you are looking for).

Is every other highsec focused player impotent in terms of their abilility to do anything?

You are engaging in a very manipulative process. Just because we want the exploiting to stop in high sec does not mean we want to stop ganking in high sec. It should be dangerous but it should not be stupidly easy for the ganker, which it is right now.

The claims of gankers in this forum are flat out lies.

It is not nerfed
it is easy to gank
it is easy to draw concord away from the battle.

you people get 100% guaranteed kills. there are few ways to avoid it and you are engaging in a propaganda battle in these forums to cloak the fact you have exploited the game to the point that there is

NO RISK FOR THE ATTACKER NOW!

Stop with the lies.

[Most_Moliko]

@Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras

@Most_Moliko

it is easy to draw concord away from the battle

Why not use that to your advantage? If gankers can pull CONCORD, miners can too.

I am not here to talk about these kinds of solutions. i am here to expose the gankers as liars and that they talk about risk for everyone in the game. BUT THERE IS NO RISK FOR GANKERS. A bunch of catalysts blowing up after destroying a freighter is hardly risk.

[Scipio_Artelius]

I don’t know why, but I’m starting to think there may be no risk for the gankers.

On the flip side, there’s no risk for me hauling goods either, so seems pretty balanced.

[ISD_Buldath]

57 posts removed for various Reasons highlighted below. Those in response to removed messages have also been removed.

~Buldath

1. Specifically restricted conduct.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to courteous when disagreeing with others.

In order to maintain an environment where everyone is welcome and discussion flows freely, certain types of conduct are prohibited on the EVE Online forums. These are:

Trolling
Flaming
Ranting
Personal Attacks
Harassment
Doxxing
Racism & Discrimination
Hate Speech
Sexism
Spamming
Bumping
Off-Topic Posting
Pyramid Quoting
Rumor Mongering
New Player Bashing
Impersonation
Advertising