PLEX is very expensive right now thread

[Teckos_Pech]

@Sgt_Ocker

So your conclusion is -

1. It has to be “Most Players” for it to have a negative affect?
2. What opportunity cost are you hinting at? (A baseless comment with absolutely no context)

Wut? My point is that you have 2 options for paying a sub, RL money or a PLEX. If a rising PLEX price is driving players out it is most likely the case that those players can’t afford or do not want to pay using RL currency. Considering that in most countries that have advanced economies $14.95 is little more than an hours worth of work if that. So, if people are finding the grind for PLEX so burdensome they no longer can/want to do it and can’t pay for the sub with RL currency…welp them’s the breaks.

And the opportunity cost comes in via the labor/leisure trade off. If I’m fine with trading 5 hours of leisure for a PLEX, but not fine at 6, and it costs 1 hour of RL work to do it…then maybe people should switch to RL currency.

@Sgt_Ocker

“Me too, I always like to play at a discount.”

You can’t be serious with this little quip. It makes no sense at all.

It makes all the sense in the world. PLEX have become more valuable as they can be used for more things. By forcing the price back down that is essentially saying that people should still pay $20 for 500 PLEX but not get its actual ISK value, but some pre-determined ISK value you find to your liking. That is using the Devs to get a discount.

@Sgt_Ocker

At $20 p/m (depending on exchange rates) for a sub, I would be more than happy to see plex prices come down a little.

So would everyone that keeps their accounts subbed via PLEX. But the point is you are not the only one’s buying PLEX. PLEX are used for more things now and hence are more valuable…so the higher ISK value. The current price is the result of supply and demand. Forcing the price below that would basically be an attempt to take the ISK value from people buying PLEX for RL currency and selling them. It won’t work in that they have the option of simply not buying PLEX (and maybe quitting the game too, BTW) PLEX. Thus, you’ll end up with a possible shortage–i.e. PLEX prices are low, but there aren’t any for you to buy.

[Gryphon_Infinite]

Make Eve Online Great Again!!! (2003-2010)

No Aurum or Cash Shop / Normal Accounts and no F2P Scheme . NO PLEX! No stupid launcher but actually full log in screen.

RIP possible Skill point loss on death if not properly cloned and Learning Skills!

[March_rabbit]

… And the game was actually getting more players year to year

[Sgt_Ocker]

Damn, the narrow mindedness and lack of understanding here is astounding.

Wut?

Most players are so poor they cannot afford to pay a sub with RL currency,

So what you “posted” has nothing to do with what you meant (you should really read what someone has responded to before posting a reply saying they are wrong “Wut”)

** There is ONE country where plex can be purchased for $14.95. So yes while in most advanced economies $14.95 is little more (or a lot less) than an hours work - That doesn’t apply to buying items from CCP using that currency as the basis of purchase, unless you live in that country.
That $14.95 = + - $20 AU depending on exchange rates. Until recently it was around $23 AU.

And the opportunity cost comes in via the labor/leisure trade off. If I’m fine with trading 5 hours of leisure for a PLEX, but not fine at 6, and it costs 1 hour of RL work to do it…then maybe people should switch to RL currency.

5 hours to make enough for 500 Plex? 300 mil is for from average isk p/h. With the nerfs to carrier ratting, it is closer to 12.5 hours and that’s if you have no competition for sites and pay no corp tax. (of course you need to add 12.5 more hours to that for each additional account)
As for the only 1 hour of RL pay - You might want to consider the number of people on fixed or low incomes who play the game. Not everyone has the ability to get an hours extra pay. So I’ll change my response to “very limited context” as it just doesn’t apply to “everyone” or even “most players” as you stated.

As for still pay $20 - NO,I was suggesting CCP reduce the price to encourage more people to buy it - Which would in turn reduce the price in game…

I wonder how many subs CCP can afford to lose with the attitude of “whelp them’s the breaks”.

So what you’re saying is - that when plex was 800 mil or even until recently 1.2 bil people who purchased it weren’t getting what it was worth, now that it is 1.5 bil they are?
Plex is only worth what demand and supply say it is worth - If supply increases plex is worth less - When demand is higher than supply, lets say because there are players out there sitting on huge stockpiles - The price of plex goes up.
If CCP were to have a 20% off Plex packages sale for one month, the price of plex on the ingame market would come down - At which point the “speculators” would buy up a lot of the cheaper plex, removing it from the market, forcing the price back up.

Side note;
Monthly subscription prices
Based on the US currency where a sub is $14.95
Australian’s pay $14.95 US = $19.45 AU
New Zealanders pay $14.95 US = $19.39 NZ

UK 9.99 GDP = $13.25 US
Euros 14.95 = $17.68 US
Ruble 559 = $9.70 US

[Teckos_Pech]

@Sgt_Ocker

So what you “posted” has nothing to do with what you meant (you should really read what someone has responded to before posting a reply saying they are wrong “Wut”)

The comment I was responding to was that people were leaving due to high PLEX prices. Why would people leave due to high PLEX prices when they can also sub via RL currency? One conclusion is that they can’t afford to sub via RL currency.

@Sgt_Ocker

** There is ONE country where plex can be purchased for $14.95. So yes while in most advanced economies $14.95 is little more (or a lot less) than an hours work - That doesn’t apply to buying items from CCP using that currency as the basis of purchase, unless you live in that country.

That $14.95 = + - $20 AU depending on exchange rates. Until recently it was around $23 AU.

Oh wow…okay, so there are a couple of price differentials…and that means what precisely? Nothing really.

@Sgt_Ocker

5 hours to make enough for 500 Plex? 300 mil is for from average isk p/h.

My comment was illustrative not actual. It was meant to highlight the point you asked about.

@Sgt_Ocker

As for the only 1 hour of RL pay - You might want to consider the number of people on fixed or low incomes who play the game.

And exactly how many is that? I’d like to see the numbers and your sources. And so what? CCP is supposed to subsidize their play? We are to engage in social engineering via video games vs. perhaps something that makes far, far more sense like a Universal Basic Income or say a negative income tax?

@Sgt_Ocker

I wonder how many subs CCP can afford to lose with the attitude of “whelp them’s the breaks”.

Businesses are not in the habit of running a business at a loss and staying open. They need to make enough revenue other wise they will be shut down and the resources moved to more productive areas. Even if it simple selling off the companies assets and plopping the money into investments. Again, this is an opportunity cost argument. If you have $1,000 in assets and you can earn $50 on it via running a business or $100 via investing it in say various financial assets and you decide to run the business you are actually earning zero profits.

@Sgt_Ocker

So what you’re saying is - that when plex was 800 mil or even until recently 1.2 bil people who purchased it weren’t getting what it was worth, now that it is 1.5 bil they are?

No. I am saying that when it was 800 million that was the value of PLEX. Then CCP added things to the game that made PLEX more valuable such as all the other stuff you can buy with PLEX aside from game time.

Suppose you have a product. And suppose you are using your product to do X. Then over time the product can be used for X, Y, and Z. Now there are more people wanting to buy the product…so it gets more expensive because of the increased demand for the product. So if you want to keep buying it to do X you have to pay more because of the people who also want it for Y and Z.

@Sgt_Ocker

If CCP were to have a 20% off Plex packages sale for one month, the price of plex on the ingame market would come down - At which point the “speculators” would buy up a lot of the cheaper plex, removing it from the market, forcing the price back up.

Maybe, depends on how deep their wallets are.

@Sgt_Ocker

Side note;

Monthly subscription prices

Based on the US currency where a sub is $14.95

Australian’s pay $14.95 US = $19.45 AU

New Zealanders pay $14.95 US = $19.39 NZ

UK 9.99 GDP = $13.25 US

Euros 14.95 = $17.68 US

Ruble 559 = $9.70 US

Price discrimination has always been a thing.

[JC_Mieyli]

@Sgt_Ocker

There is ONE country where plex can be purchased for $14.95. So yes while in most advanced economies $14.95 is little more (or a lot less) than an hours work - That doesn’t apply to buying items from CCP using that currency as the basis of purchase, unless you live in that country.

That $14.95 = + - $20 AU depending on exchange rates. Until recently it was around $23 AU.

gonna stop you right there
currency has no real value
its just a token to represent the number of chickens we own
it represents the value of goods vs services and in australia
you only work 6 hours a day for a very healthy wage
what the average australian erans in a 6 hour day most people have to work a 10 hour day for
its all relative
source; everyone knows australians start work at 10 and go home at 3 so thats 5 hours i gave you the benefit of the doubt by saying 6 not even including breaks

@Sgt_Ocker

So what you’re saying is - that when plex was 800 mil or even until recently 1.2 bil people who purchased it weren’t getting what it was worth, now that it is 1.5 bil they are?

its all relative
back then isk was more valuable
nowadays its less valuable because its easier to farm and generate

@Sgt_Ocker

Plex is only worth what demand and supply say it is worth - If supply increases plex is worth less

no its all relative
the value of plex is balanced against the value of isk
if plex goes up in price it doesnt neccesarilly mean plex is worth more
it can also mean isk is worth less

@Sgt_Ocker

If CCP were to have a 20% off Plex packages sale for one month, the price of plex on the ingame market would come down - At which point the “speculators” would buy up a lot of the cheaper plex, removing it from the market, forcing the price back up.

to a point yes
youre kind of right but if that happens then we wouldnt see a change in the market
the rate at which the plex is bought and sold wold not refelct on the market all you would see is a period of static growth until the sale is over

what i mean is if someone dumps 1m plex on the market and prices drop
its not like buyers are going to hold off buying until they see the lowest point in value
as soon as prices drop people will buy
and so the prices wont really drop
all you will see is a larger volume being traded at the viable sale point
so you will see a period of static growth
where the market stagnates slightly
until the sale is over and then it grows again

[Teckos_Pech]

Thanks, I forgot to mention the subjective nature of value. And yes, if PLEX are considered a superior good then it is also likely that as ISK incomes go up then people allocate a larger share of their income to PLEX.

The bottom line is the PLEX market is generally too big for long term manipulation. Speculators exist in that market but they’ll likely reduce the market fluctuations. When a speculator currently holding PLEX sees a price spike he’ll be more likely to dump his PLEX and take profits and also blunt the rise in PLEX prices and possibly even lower the price. Conversely if the price drops, speculators will buy anticipating a future increase in price where they can sell for a profit.

[JC_Mieyli]

dont thank me teckos
you are only preaching to ccp choir
if they take your word as law then that will be bad for everyone
i appreciate yor understanding of economics but
i would never want to see you as the sole propegator of the ingame economy
you are pretty ok tho and generally clued up

actually thinking about it between me and you we can probably figure it out

[Teckos_Pech]

@JC_Mieyli

dont thank me teckos

you are only preaching to ccp choir

if they take your word as law then that will be bad for everyone

i appreciate yor understanding of economics but

i would never want to see you as the sole propegator of the ingame economy

you are pretty ok tho and generally clued up

I wouldn’t want that either…I wouldn’t want anyone to do it, to be quite honest.

Which is why my preferred solution to this “problem” is:

Do nothing.
Is it really a problem?

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

The bottom line is the PLEX market is generally too big for long term manipulation.

In theory, yes.

But reality is PLEX periodically makes a huge jump in price, and stays roughly there till the next jump.

That recurring phenomenon can be explained by other factors as well, but large scale player based manipulation cant be conclusively excluded either.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

But reality is PLEX periodically makes a huge jump in price, and stays roughly there till the next jump.

Actually no. The time series of the PLEX market says that PLEX will periodically spike upwards, then fall back, and stabilize for an extended period of time until CCP does something.

@Salvos_Rhoska

That recurring phenomenon can be explained by other factors as well, but large scale player based manipulation cant be conclusively excluded either.

Unless there is somebody with an absolutely massive wallet this hypothesis is dubious. If there is a cartel, each member of the cartel has a huge incentive to cheat. This renders the cartel unstable unless there is very good monitoring and punishment, and with the cheapness of alts not sure how one can enforce punishment.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

Actually no. The time series of the PLEX market says that PLEX will periodically spike upwards, then fall back, and stabilize for an extended period of time until CCP does something.

Actually, yes.
PLEX history shows periodic jumps of up to 25%, before dropping and stabilising at a few % less, often to the nearest neat figure.

PLEX price doesnt grow incrementally. It makes dramatic, periodic jumps.

@Teckos_Pech

Unless there is somebody with an absolutely massive wallet this hypothesis is dubious.

No less dubious than any other explanation for this periodic phenomenon.
PLEX jumps. It doesnt gradually grow in price.
Certainly considering the savy/manipulative nature of players in EVE in an unregulated market, it becomes a lot less dubious.

[Teckos_Pech]

The data say no,

[Frostys_Virpio]

BUT… MAH NARRATIVE!!!

[Salvos_Rhoska]

1 year lol

But yes, even there are pronounced spikes.

[Nana_Skalski]

I wonder what would happen if we would reverse PLEX trend. How many people would return.

I have seen a whale who pumped thousands of dolars into microtransaction in games, because he perceived the game community as healthy, so he was not afraid the game will go out soon.

[Frostys_Virpio]

People could probably easily just hoover up all the extra offer on the market. PLEX being extremely close to liquid mean there isn’t that many problem with hoarding them. The only time they lose value is always really short term and then it climbs back up. How many 1k$ whales do we need before people start thinking it will not just re-trend back up after a short dip because of a sudden flood?

[Nana_Skalski]

They could fix the price for PLEX. Like fixed in advance. Regulations, space commies FTW.

And regulate ISK payouts. More you rat, less you earn. Diminishing returns.

[Teckos_Pech]

Not nearly of the magnitude you describe and note that after a run up in price, the price drops and there are extended periods of stability. Look at the spike at the end of July. By the end of August it was completely wiped out and prices were stable for all of September and then started rising slightly from that point on.

[Teckos_Pech]

That should end well.