There isn’t a big market for injectors at the moment and when you want to keep it this way, or when you want it to be an even smaller market, then you need to make them more expensive. This is then what’s happening as the PLEX price goes up. Both extractors and injectors are becoming more expensive in terms of ISKs.
There isn’t then a need to associated a PLEX-based price to injectors. Firstly, because injectors have a different value for different players as one only gets a diminishing return of SPs the more SPs one has got, and secondly because we do not want to create a new source of SPs. Players must use extractors on their existing SPs before injectors can be sold to other players. The diminishing return from using injectors then helps to destroy SPs.
First of all, Injectors are already soft pegged to a PLEX price of ~235 PLEX. The equilibrium price of injectors is always going to be the 110 PLEX extractor cost + about 1/4 a of a months game time or 125 PLEX.
And secondly, “we do not want to create a new source of SPs.”
We already have, it’s being done by the players over time buying/consuming PLEX and extracting the SP from alts.
Even as “professional” SP farming has declined, players are still informally extracting at a small loss now because there is ISK generating value in having useful Omega alts.
Don’t get me wrong, I too am enjoying the era of “free to play Omega,” that we have now, but I love Eve more. Don’t you see how CCP has effectively turned its veteran players into competitors?
Also, note that this solution of selling Injectors directly does not disenfranchise current owners of either Injectors or Extractors.
No. Without extractors and injectors, which are destroying a portion of the SPs, would players only fallback to trading entire characters and flying fully skilled-up alts. We would then have more SPs in the game than we would have with the current system.
If you so will are players being tricked by CCP into believing that it produces something of equal value, when in fact it’s destroying SPs. So does one need to have at least 5.5m SPs to extract 500k SPs, but can only get 500k SPs back if the injecting character has got less than 5m SPs. I’d say you’ve fallen for CCP’s trick, too.
He said a NEW source of SP, this is an existing source of SP, there is a massive difference, CCP selling SP directly would mean there were now 2 sources of SP and not just the current 1 source, you do NOT want CCP selling SP directly in any meaningful amounts, the daily alpha injectors are a different matter because you’re limited to one per day and the SP amount is basically the same as you would have gained from being omega for that day which means there isn’t really much in the way of extra SP being added to the universe
Competitors with who exactly, the amount of SP being added to the game is at a fairly steady rate and it has a maximum limit based on the number of characters with an active omega training queue, at the end of the day regardless of what each unit of PLEX is consumed by, that is money in CCP’s pocket, its in their best interest for people to keep buying PLEX over a long period of time instead of just having people drop a bundle now and then stop playing
“He said a NEW source of SP, this is an existing source of SP”
If you go to the store right now buy $20 of PLEX and sell it to your corpmate so he can Omega, how is that not a NEW source of SP? The only difference is that 30 days have to lapse.
CCP is in the business of selling SP (over time). Especially now with Alpha accounts, they are not primarily selling game time, per se.
“at the end of the day regardless of what each unit of PLEX is consumed by, that is money in CCP’s pocket”
You’re right, but instead of a player buying PLEX to then sell for ISK to then buy injectors from a middleman, CCP can and should cut out the middleman. All “new” SP is good for CCP bc that is new sales for them, whether it be PLEX or subs. However, “old” SP trading is not, CCP only takes a 110 PLEX commission on it, and it is just as good and competes with “new” SP.
As for the injector penalty SP sink, it’s still in place by selling Injectors in the store. Nothing is changed, you have to think about it in terms of how much SP is received per unit of PLEX consumed.
They already are.
people buy 2MTC and one sub with plex.
after a month they buy extractors with plex. three +5 remapped toons are 5 832 000 SP/month(30d) for 1470 plexes, so 11.664 extractors which means an additionnal 1306 plex to create 11.664 injjectors. That means 238.03 plex required per injector. Less if you have access to accelerators, less if you have special offers
ALL you need is plex besides the initial investment cost.
CCP is already selling the items needed for injectors. The only difference is that people invest their time to make
What are you talking about? CCP already selling SP for RL money (alpha injectors).
We are on downward spiral currently. If upcoming patch won’t fix isk faucets from NS, we will have serenity plex prices and pcu.
Let’s round up and say a newly bought PLEX produces 2M SP on perfect remap.
Someone PLEXes, extracts 4 Injectors, then Injects them on another character, they receive 1.6M unallocated SP.
Did they “lose” 400K SP or did they not simply pay 500 PLEX for 1.6M SP? Just as they would, say, with a suboptimal remap. You seem to have fallen for the sunk cost fallacy, Mr. Greyspear.
The 400K SP (and extractor PLEX cost) is a transaction cost. It’s CCP’s “tax” on the used car business. They would make more money getting rid of used cars altogether, and simultaneously slow down the problem of rapid productivity gains by a small number of players.
Yes and no. Yes, they sell SPs, but these have to be accumulated over time. And no, because there is no new or different system in place, which can counter the current system of SP-over-time accumulation.
A player who injects SPs has to get these from another player first. That other player has to put in extra time to accumulate those additional SPs before he or she can give them away. These SPs do not come from any other source than the one existing system. What makes this worse is that the diminishing returns destroy a part of it and thus force the producing player to invest an over-proportional amount of time.
We then don’t care if the game has got 1 million or 2 million active players when it comes to the accumulation of SPs. It’s the same with seasonal fluctuations, which bring more and less players to the game, meaning, the overall pool of SPs increases at different speeds depending on the time of year. We just don’t care about it and we shouldn’t have a reason to there care if somebody trains a 2nd alt or not. All that matters is that SP has to be accumulated over time, because this is how it has always been for all players.
What is new is that (particularly) new players can get SPs faster/instantly, but it first requires others to put in (on average) even more time then the new player would have to.
Overall can this mean that the global pool of SPs is becoming smaller, or, that players consume an over-proportional amount of PLEX in order to produce the extra SPs. I’d say the later is the case and that’s what’s causing a rise in the demand of PLEX and so its price.
Because that is how SP has always been added, that isn’t a new “source” its an existing source re-activated, as i said the current amount of SP being created has a hard cap based on the number of possible omega characters active at any one time, adding SP for sale in the NES would remove that hard cap, so yeah, its not going to happen
And WHY should they exactly? the market is player controlled, there is no reason for CCP to step in and artificially limit the value of SP
Except they aren’t, as i have already stated, there IS a hard cap on the maximum amount of SP which can be created which is directly linked to the max number of omega skillqueues that can be active, yes you can make more accounts to increase that hard cap but you’re still going to have to get them above 5mil SP for them to actually have any impact
Yes, which are limited to one per day and only make up the difference in SP between an alpha training queue and an omega training queue over a 24 hour period, essentially you’re buying a days worth of omega at a much higher price
SP for alpha injectors are not coming from players. Also some of us told CCP that regular injectors should have limitations otherwise we will have supers everywhere. Guess what? supers are everywhere, and now they have to nerf them because they threat economy.
You realize the number of possible omega characters active has no cap and thus this cap on SP creation does not exist? SP creation is limited by the equilibrium price of Injectors on the market. If it is profitable to SP farm, then there are plenty of veterans out there who will happily Omega hundreds of accounts until the profit goes to zero. Except, having Omega is ISK productive and so folks are and will be willing to run Omega selling the SP at a loss.
New units of PLEX bought in the store is a new source of SP, only the method is pre-existing. If a player uses $ to buy PLEX to then buy injectors from another player who used PLEX to buy extractor + Omega’d PLEX, or buys PLEX to buy an injector from the store, the exact same number of PLEX is purchased from CCP.
Both of you fine folks seems to be very concerned about the total pool of SP. Ironically, the total pool of SP is only relevant as long as extractors exist, because then it is SP that can be mobilized and is fungible. Once Eve is returned to a pre-extractor state, SP assets will be illiquid once again and only be economically relevant in terms of character sales. This is good because players will be happy to keep “fun” but economically unproductive skills like, say, Small Blasters on their characters, which is not the case now.
CCP wants to sell as much SP as possible, making it more liquid and efficient to trade between players is counterproductive to that end.
I’m actually not concerned. I don’t believe that there is a real problem here. I believe its a temporary price bubble created by players themselves. One can see it on the market, too, (See Adam4EVE) and how there is a higher demand for extractors lately without there being more injectors sold. Players seem to be soaking up more PLEX for a subjective gain, but overall is it a loss and a gamble as it drives up the price of PLEX. Its going to have losers. Some will be innocent in all of this, and some will not. Maybe some of us will get lucky and we’ll be able to score some cheap injectors at some point when SP farmers can no longer sell SPs for a profit but at a loss. We’ll have to see how it plays out. And of course is there also less PLEX being sold into the game, but the increasing ISK price should take care of this.
You seem to be missing the fact that any single person can create any number of alphas and have them all traning to be extracted later. That single person doesn’t have to extract his hard earned character they’ve had since 08, they can just train 50 alphas to 5 mil and start extracting. The time value that SP training used to have is now so minute as to be irrelevant.
There is still a hard cap, the maximum number of SP that can be generated in all of EVE is directly linked to the number of omega queues that exist, i think you’re getting a little confused here
I am aware, and that doens’t change what i stated, its the difference in SP over 24 hours between an alpha and omega account, its how they sell you what is essentially a days worth of omega time without you being able to exploit it
You were going to have supers everywhere in the end anyway, even without injectors, the problem wasn’t created it was only brought closer to now, and you could still buy super pilots on the character bazaar before injectors even existed so in reality nothing has actually changed really, the amount of SP in the universe hasn’t jumped its just been shuffled around
