Price of Plex - Market intervention Required from CCP

[Naari_Naarian]

@Mevatla_Vekraspek

It works, i do it, but it’s not for the average Joe, it takes knowledge and dedication.
And f**k Wow.

Soon its gona be “f** eve”

Considering that is population is down to around 18k active, unique players.

[Mevatla_Vekraspek]

Yes, but PLEX price is not the reason of the decline, it’s barely a symptom, boredom is.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Teckos_Pech

The posts prove it. They always invoke the poor players who will have to stop playing. Never mind that PLEXing one’s account, unless one has lots of ISK already, is very inefficient. Now run along child.

correlation != causation . Learn logic child.

Also, I proved you are wrong. Learn from your mistakes, kid.

[Mestaaja_Seppo]

@Daichi_Yamato

If it is plex price that pushes them out the game, then lower price from lower demand would encourage the same people to start plexing again. The price will eventually bounce around and level off at it’s ‘true’ value.

Players ‘lost’ to high plex prices may have zero effect on ccp’s bottom line. In fact, the higher incentive to sell plex for isk may in fact make ccp more money.

The worst case scenario of losing players to high plex prices is lost activity numbers and lost content. But two problems with this ‘worst case’:

• Players can go alpha.
• Players that just barely plex their accounts likely spend most, if not all, of their game time grinding. Content wise they provide very little.

There is 2 major flaws with your assumptions:

@Mestaaja_Seppo

Eve is a bit tricky with plex, since plex price actually correlates with player base and if you decide to take a break / pause or even quit eve, the chances of returning are very low. Therefore even the players who plex their accounts do matter quite a lot since they bring active player numbers. The potential buyers of plex goes down if the player base starts to decrease. Therefore plex price does affect the number of total players in eve in quite a big scale.

Losing a single player plex user or not, he will probably have friends and the one who quit eve will eventually pull out even more players as they often are social and will get other players to accompany them in other games. Eve relies on social connections to keep players but the coin has two sides - it works both ways - it may keep players active but also it may get social people dragged into other games.

Tldr: Plex is not bouncing - There is no people who start plexing again in such a significant numbers that it would matter. Players lost to plex have HUGE effect on ccp’s bottom line as they provide unique player numbers, content and social connections which help keeping the plexing ’ whales’ to stick around.

Edit: Also the old players do not bother playing as handicapped alpha + content wise they do provide very little if they are pushed out of content into making isk before they end up quitting

[Vicky_Vase_Voltian]

Huh…

the forum is lively with many people being polite and no degrading and condescending remark…

…at all.

Anyway, regarding the skyrocketing plex, I was subbing my account since six month ago before all of this skedaddles. Apparently it pays.

Im just start planning to max out alpha skill of one of my alt account and phase it out as alpha. Since I cant pay for two account and I wont grind for this crazy plex. Good thing im not a ratting botter or rorq multiboxer with tens of account.

Im not really in any side of this. All I can see there is two side in this situation. Demanding side and non-demanding side. since i’m in both of it. I’ll try to hoard as much as possible then wait and see.

…just like how I watching this thread. [grab popcorn]

[Avaelica_Kuershin]

@Naari_Naarian

here’s an idea, how about ccp’ just sets the “true value” at round 100m? Say, like blizzard does with tokens.

Where did you get that strange idea that they directly control and set the price?
Now, as it happens Blizzard has effectively controlled the price of their token through radically limiting gold influx to the economy but the gold/token varies between regions.
Perhaps if ISK input to the economy was nerfed…

[Avaelica_Kuershin]

Yes, you do need to have spent some time gaining the skills and you really do benefit from the WH/NS bonuses if you are manufacturing commodities but that’s true with many ISK generating activities.

[Lord_Kalus]

@CCP_Falcon

We’re aware of high prices right now, and are monitoring the situation.

It might be time to run a two week long sale on plex or something my dude.

[Aiko_Danuja]

They are running a sale on PLEX. Right now you get like 4 million isk for every PLEX you buy. It’s a great deal. Not sure what you are whining about.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@alazarr

its not just the plex market the whole market is screwed up. and anyone who can take the time to sit down with a calculator and workout what you get for mined ore minus processing losses bpo and manufacturing fees when you actually loose money on almost every item that can be produced in game so fix it

I agree industry is not where I’d like it either. But that’s simply a supply/demand thing. We’re making more than ever before, but destruction isn’t keeping up at all.

Games too safe. Or production too easy.

@Naari_Naarian

The value is what ever the devs say it is, at least until the players get sick of it and decide other wise. lets stop with the “imaginary” value. That number will always change, thus, the only real way to have “true value” is to set it at one.

Your definition of value is different to the economic definition.

@Mestaaja_Seppo

Tldr: Plex is not bouncing - There is no people who start plexing again in such a significant numbers that it would matter.

Plex isn’t bouncing/hovering because we haven’t reached it’s value as perceived by the market yet. It seemingly has higher to go yet. It certainly isn’t falling is it? So the people quitting haven’t yet reduced pressure on price rises have they.

Players lost to plex have HUGE effect on ccp’s bottom line as they provide unique player numbers, content and social connections which help keeping the plexing ’ whales’ to stick around.

Colour me skeptical.
I see plexers doing a lot of whining and botting. I don’t see any content creators.

[Anderson_Geten]

I always find it funny that people always say THEIR model is correct.

None is.
The example model I gave before is not ( too many assumptions).

The truth is, no model is correct IRL either. Every model that tried to predict the prices of something failed, for a simple reason : none can predict the human interactions. Will people have a sudden change of interest and invest in it ? Will there be a new stock of resources ? Nobody knows. It’s butterfly effect, AKA chaotic effect from initial state (lack of) precision ; added the random nature of human interactions and random nature of science evolution.

In eve, initial precision is missing because we don’t know what people have in term of isks, plex, and their plan for them. “science evolution” is more the effect from CCP patches on the isk creation (and bots too BTW), and how people fit their ships. Human interaction is … well the same, more wars, more people coming, people station trading instead of farming, etc.

So fact : plex price is rising. Will it stabilize? dunno. Will it crash, should CCP make more offers? Maybe, maybe not. What’s good for CCP, is known by CCP I think ; what’s good for the players, I’m not sure they even are really aware of it. I don’t think people who want lower plex price think of something else than their own short-term interest, so their cry sound like annoying egoistic begging in my ears.

My personal opinion is, that CCP should stop making special offers for plex. Keep it at the current price, never make any more offer on plex - make offer on other things, like extractors plex price, but don’t change the plex2dollar ratio on random basis.
Just my opinion though. Let players drive the plex market ingame. You’ll note that this is against the idea I formulated before, that too high plex price would hurt CCP - it’s because my opinion as a player is not the same as my opinion when I look at CCP stance.

Instead, they could reduce the isk creation ingame. but that I don’t really care about, so maybe it would be a stupid idea ^^.

[alazarr]

are you stupid plex is the reason the population is down i know for sure there’s ten real players not playing right now because of the market i pay for there main accounts and they plex there alts so i have 4 alts and everyone else has 2 to 4 there that’s quite a bit of money for ccp to be losing. until ccp give a ■■■■ about there player base and the market is fixed we won’t be back and will milk my toon’s sp drop them in some random spot in space i really didn’t think grimmer mattered too muck on the forum

[Anderson_Geten]

@alazarr

thats quite a bit of money for ccp to be loosing.

Here is your mistake : those account are not bringing money to CCP by themselves.

Second mistake is to write lose with two "o"s.

[alazarr]

maybe you will understand the English now grammar bunny’s lol

[Xuxe_Xu]

People have said and done the same things every time plex has risen in price from 300mil.

You folks could adapt your playing to use less alts, no? If you don’t want to do that, that is of course your decision and in that case I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.

If you leave the game I would gratefully accept anything you give me.

[Mestaaja_Seppo]

@Daichi_Yamato

Plex isn’t bouncing/hovering because we haven’t reached it’s value as perceived by the market yet. It seemingly has higher to go yet. It certainly isn’t falling is it? So the people quitting haven’t yet reduced pressure on price rises have they.

Wrong. It is under market manipulation therefore it isn’t moving. The 577k plex offer has been lifted since he is keeping up buy orders and when anyone else puts up one, he will dump you the plex. He is also doing the sell orders therefore he is dumping in both buy & sell.

@Anderson_Geten

Just my opinion though. Let players drive the plex market ingame. You’ll note that this is against the idea I formulated before, that too high plex price would hurt CCP - it’s because my opinion as a player is not the same as my opinion when I look at CCP stance.

Instead, they could reduce the isk creation ingame. but that I don’t really care about, so maybe it would be a stupid idea ^^.

I totally agree, just need to add jagex kinda tax and we are good to go for this idea! Just put up a plex tax for trading plex the second time so that the tax is tied into isk % value making gametime practically impossible to flip profitably.

[Eveconomist]

I’m working on a paper to show what’s going on but the short version of it is:

• Extractors have given every player in Eve a liquid asset which they did not have before. Furthermore, this asset is precisely what CCP is in the business of selling (SP).

• This liquid asset is being and has been redeployed to ever more productive activities via PLEXing. The Injector penalty only penalizes the instant redeployment of it, not redeployment over time. This has created a perverse incentive for players to extract skills like say, Medium Autocannon Spec V, use the funds raised to then PLEX and train ISK productive skills on all of their characters.

• PLEX has two primary purposes, Omega Game time and pure SP gain. CCP should seek to maximize its use as the former and minimize it its use as the latter because the former boosts the size of the Eve network and its effects while the latter is decreasing it as ISK productive players with N number of alts price out the ISK unproductive ones. Do we really want Eve to be only about making ISK? As it stands, there is a strong disincentive to hold many skills such as PvP skills until a after an account has maxed its ISK generating potential (particularly more passive isk generation). PLEX prices cannot healthily rise indefinitely because a large part of the ISK economy is pegged to a nominal ISK value (think LP and mission rewards, for example); players respond to incentives, much of the gameplay in eve has been getting “priced out” for years now.

Solution: CCP must sell Injectors directly in the store for ~235 PLEX instead of selling Extractors. SP that was sold years ago is being sold again and put to ISK productive uses, it is imperative CCP urgently re-monopolize the sale of SP. Selling PLEX on the market as OP suggests will not fix the root cause. Imagine if CCP was an automaker and sold new cars, then they started selling cars that never broke down and were just as good as new and worth just as much (minus a transaction fee) 10 years later. 10 years later, the automakers’ sales would be pitiful. This is approximate to what has been done, and the CSM minutes indicate a lack of awareness about it.

[Drx_Drx]

@Eveconomist

Solution: CCP must sell Injectors directly in the store

[Anderson_Geten]

That’s interesting. Not sure if a good thing, but worth the discussion about it.

[Aiko_Danuja]

The obvious solution is to gank more high sec miners.
That is the only way to solve this problem.