Hey, I could have had a pile of 10000 PLEX by now if I havent spent that much on Skins. I only have a pile of 4000 at the moment.
āImitation is the sincerest form of flattery.ā
Then I would challenge your premise. Why is it that the goal of the newbro must be that they make 2B+ ISK in order to PLEX? I would argue that this type of mindset, and people like you perpetuating this mindset is flawed.
As Alpha clones, newbros, especially, can still participate in an overwhelming majority of the game. In the same way a newbro doesnāt need to be lighting Covert Cynos in a hunting T3C to gank ratting Carriers in hostile territory, they donāt need to be PLEXing themselves. In fact, their first month should really be put to use learning how to play the game stress free from the self-imposed idea that they āneedā to PLEX.
Given that L4 Mission running, Mining, PI, and other professions have managed to keep up with the rising PLEX prices since the start of the game, I donāt believe this is an issue.
Sure, but the point Iām making is that there are a variety of activities. I donāt see āseveral thousandsā of people getting into market trading, because if they were going to, they would have in the past several years that EVE has been around.
Most of my market profits come from the fact that I take advantage of human nature, that most people are lazy. People are too lazy to ship their own goods around to list at the maximum profits and will gladly sell to a less than optimal buy order. People are too lazy to import their own goods to their stations and will gladly pay a little extra for the convenience. Because my entire set up operates on the human nature of laziness, I donāt believe (and for the last 3 years, donāt have any reason to believe) that my activity will ever suffer this crowding effect youāre warning about.
This is again, just more of the same poor argument.
Besides, none of what you said impacts my ability to make ISK from running Abyssal sites, from running Combat anomalies, from insurance frauding ships built by mining, from running Relic sites, etc. To harp on only market trading is to conveniently ignore all others forms of making ISK for yourself. Especially because you are conveniently ignoring ISK Faucet activities.
Marketing does not create ISK, one may argue that due to Fees and Taxes, itās actually an ISK Sink. But activities like farming NPCs in Combat Anomalies is an ISK Faucet. And just because āmoreā people are engaging in an activity, does not prevent you from engaging in those same activities.
Your entire argument is based on a hypothetical, which historically has never happened and I see no reason for it to ever actually happen.
I admit, you are right, they have. Historically, since the start of the game. But how many missions did it take to earn plex 3-5 years ago, how many does it take now, how many before it unreasonable to run missions?
You dont seem to lokk far enough. 1-2 years from now plex will double in price again. Half of mission runners start running Abyss. Will you still be able to profit?
You just move on to something else? You see this is what it is all about. That there was something to move on to. There should be as many sustainable professions as possible.
Iām not necessarily arguing every profession should be able to plex.
By newbros I didnt mean Alphas. As I mentioned I myself was subbed for a year, by the end of the year I would still consider myself a newbro.
That would depend on what you believe to be āunreasonableā. Iām not up to date on the income from L4 Missions, but Iām of the opinion that it shouldnāt take any less than around 2 weeks worth of effort.
Yes, because Triglavian Surveys are locked at 100,000 ISK to NPC buy orders. In addition, the materials from the Abyssal space will just continue to fuel demand for those ships. Things like the Triglavian dread being teased, along with a full sortie of Triglavian ships, Iām not worried at all.
Again, youāre still basing this off a flawed argument of āwell, if everyone else starts doing the same thing.ā Which, again, history has shown does not happen.
This looks like youāre trying to swap your stance over to my side. But not quite.
I donāt believe there should āas many sustainable professions as possible.ā I say this because EVE should be a game about optimizing. You should not be able to purchase PLEX each month by staying in highsec as a risk averse miner slowly mining away Veldspar. There is a natural progression of activities that get more lucrative the more you invest in setting something up (for example, Dread ratting in wormholes) or when you place assets on the line (4B Gilas/Sacrilieges in T5 Abyssal space).
To expect that risk averse low effort professions in high sec be profitable enough to self fund PLEX each month is silly and I cannot support that kind of idea.
Then your definition of a ānewbroā is meaningless because it becomes a subjective definition based on the viewpoint of that particular individual. I donāt know what else to say here other than your definition is unworkable for the purposes of this discussion.
I know several players who are less than three months old who have gotten a handle of Nullsec exploration and are proficient enough to fund themselves. They would still believe themselves to be a ānewbroā in other aspects of the game, like PVP, but are more than capable of funding themselves though in-game activities.
You keep Straw man my position and then demolishing it for everyones entertainment. Way to go bro.
I never said highsec mining should be sustainable. I never said low effort professions should. Your picking to my newbro definition is lame.
I wouldnt argue about 2 weeks for mission runners, I just say there is a point, and if its not 2 than maybe in 3 years it will become unsustainable.
Iām not saying that I calculated threshold for every profession, and neither I have to. I just say that in not so distant future many professions might be gone.
And you keep repeating that up till now it didnt break so it wont. That is a strong position indeed. Much stronger than mine.
Bro, did I steal your anomaly or some such?
Youāve said this a couple of times, before. Iām starting to get the idea that you donāt actually know what this means. Iāve been addressing the flaws in the premise of your āarguments.ā
So then what are you saying? Because your only argument has been an attack of āIf everyone else does it, your activity wonāt be profitable.ā To which my response was, āHistorically, this has not shown itself to be the case.ā
A good response from you would be to show me why it actually will be the case and why I should be concerned with it. But now youāre backpedaling with āI didnāt say Xā and āI didnāt say Yā. That may be true, but thatās because those were hypotheticals that I was extrapolating towards.
I donāt run anomalies so this would not be an issue for me.
My main issue is that your arguments, taken as a whole, seem to imply āthe improvements that Scoots is suggestion will eventually become less profitable if everyone else does the same thing, therefore, CCP still needs to intervene in the PLEX prices.ā I know this is not explicitly what you are saying, but that will be the implication that other people in the thread will get. And that is the issue I have.
My brief glance at plex price and daily volume showed about a 33% increase in price and a 33% decrease in volume over the past year.
If I could figure out the esi import for excel, I could check to see if there is a trend.
Your idea of unreasonable amount of effort to earn the isk for PLEX could still be reasonable enough for others determined to continue to use PLEX for subscription.
a little little bit less reasonable than the day before. Donāt you think so?
If you canāt pay the measly monthly sub then use your time to make enough ingame cash to plex it. Itās not super difficult but you DO need to have a few working braincells.
If you lack the rl cash, the time and the brain cells then I guess you have better things to do with your life than playing some game. Thereās a word for those type of people: Casuals. And I donāt mean that in a negative way, casuals do fine on Alpha.
Anything else than that is just being a 5 year old crying for a cookie: Always demanding more.
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Eve becomes a lot more enjoyable when you simply ignore Plex. Donāt buy it. Donāt sell it.
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Yepā¦play the game and if you can PLEX your account now and then, bonusā¦
EVE is amazing and so many ruin it by just focusing on one thing.
Yes, it is.
Come on CCP i think you need to somethingā¦ its 19:19 in the UK and only 30,000 are playingā¦ I remember when it used to be near 40,000ā¦
I think loads are leaving! and not playing anymore!
Yes yes, EVE is dyingā¦something something āI thinkāā¦
Almost a shame the āHow long will EVE surviveā topic had to be closed. Games that stabilize or lose players donāt necessarily disappear.
- AFAIK Ultima Online is still going at 22 years (Ultima Online - Wikipedia)
- Ditto Tibia (AFAIK) and otherwise Open Tibia (100%) is still alive, also 22 years old
Fewer paying customers isnāt good for revenue (and hence for development), but itās cheap to keep a game that isnāt being actively developed up and running.
Iād be astonished if EVE wasnāt around for at least another ten years.
Sadly your assumptions about CCP making more money with lower PLEX prices are plain wrong. You are assuming that lower PLEX prices would bring up demand. CCP makes money on the primary market only: āPLEX for dollarsā. That demand per person goes UP directly the higher plex prices are, not the other way!
On the secondary market prices going up would drop the isk value of plex. But that is clearly not happening now.
Only long term the secondary market plex price could reduce player count and that might actually reduce CCP income indirectly. But shortterm high plex prices do very clearly and very directly improve CCPs income stream through higher demand.
I however do think a bigger playerbase, a healthy game with lots of omega characters and a fair chance for poeple that are really poor is better for the game. I do beleave lower plex prices help EVE survive more years, even if it cuts into their income shortterm.
The plex store is basically what is driving up the plex isk value these days. They are increasing plex demand on the secondary market while not increasing demand on the primary market, therefore prices go up.
Yes yes, EVE is dying and/or isnāt being developed anymoreā¦
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