Question about mwd bloom reduction on hacs and wake limiter

(Nospais Hereboss) #1

I’m trying to figure out what is the point on loki wake limiter.

If you are running no wake limiter on loki with mwd your sig is 990, if you use the wake limiter it is 578

take for example heavy missiles base explosion radius is 125m, you wont reduce the damage based on sig radius unless your radius is below 125m, you’re only going to reduce the damage based on speed which means the wake limiter is useless. Even torpedo is 450m which is less than the wake limiter bonus of 990 sig radius down to 578
similar situation with guns, iirc sig resolution of medium projectiles is 125 so a sig radius of 578 or 990 it make no difference, if the sig radius is bigger than the resolution of gun or explosion radius of missile it has NO EFFECT… so therefor, wake limiter is useless.

Can anyone enlighten me on this subject?

(Ralph King-Griffin) #2

a lot of variables effect sig so
whats the loki fit ?

(Nospais Hereboss) #3

I decided not to go with it, didn’t seem viable, only ended up with 2 low slots and not enough cpu to fill mids

I just wanted to know if a reduction on sig radius from 990 to 578 would have a damage reduction on medium sized weapons if I’m moving or would it only reduce damage from something with a resolution or explosion radius higher than 578

(Nospais Hereboss) #4

this is what I started with

[Loki, artillery hunter wake limiter]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
[Empty High slot]

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II
[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]

Loki Core - Immobility Drivers
Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Wake Limiter

Hobgoblin II x5

(Memphis Baas) #5

Loki is a cruiser (sig radius unfitted = 150), and medium-sized weapons are designed to hit cruisers (sig resolution = 125). So I’m not sure why you would expect damage reduction to medium weapons. Sig tanking reduces damage from bigger weapons, not equal-sized weapons.

So your sig of 578 would give you damage reduction from capital ship weapons, heh.

It’s the speed that gives damage reduction on MWD’s, and, long ago, MWD’s didn’t have a sig bloom, they added that later to offset some of the ridiculous nano ships we immediately got going.

(Nospais Hereboss) #6

right so the loki wake limiter sub system reduction to mwd bloom and the mwd bloom reduction on hacs is pointless, this is what I have been trying to say

(Memphis Baas) #7

I have no clue who’s part of the ship balance team and/or responsible for it.

(Mr Lopez) #8

Sometimes I think the balance team is a bottle of 151 a dartboard, darts and some post it notes.

(Nospais Hereboss) #9

yep lol

(Merin Ryskin) #10

Might want to read up on how the tracking formula works if you think that reducing signature does nothing. Once you understand the math you’ll see that in both cases a signature reduction always helps unless you are already taking 0% or 100% damage. Helpful links: and

(Makshima Shogo) #11

Yip it’s only really useful against capital’s, but then hac’s are out classed by T3C’s for fleet comp’s so Hac’s in general need a different bonus that suits their roll better.

(Fluffy Moe) #12

I also feel the WMD sig bonus is greatly underwhelming. It is useful and noticable in too few situations. Most of the times even if I fit anything with one of these 50% WMD sig reduction ships, I skip the WMD alltogether and pick it for other reasons such as slot layout on T3C or ceirtain DPS configurations etc. I really wish it’d be replaced with something more useful.

IMHO a cap use reduction and cap penalty reduction on WMD would be far, far more useful then the sig reduction bonus. You’d still get hit just the same, but you’d have far more flexibility in fits / ships since you won’t need so much cap to maintain it.

Or just ditch and replace it entirely.

(Devon Stone) #13

Did you mention the reduction in cap from MWD? Show info

(Chainsaw Plankton) #14

you are only looking at sig, speed has a large effect too. A heavy missile isn’t going to do full damage to a MWDing cruiser at top speed, and an MWDing hac or t3c with -50% MWD sig is going to take even less damage.

the missile damage formula looks at a ratio of sig and speed compared to the explosion radius and velocity.
And the turret formula does something similar with angular velocity and signature.

open a fitting tool and play around with the damage graphs.

(Nospais Hereboss) #15

read the mwd item description it says “Penalty: Max capacitor reduced”

mwd’s reduce your max capacitor by a percentage, when you’re running things like large cap batteries the penalty is quite large.

(Nospais Hereboss) #16

dead space mwd’s have less mwd bloom and cap penalty too, but doesn’t justify the cost when a mwd can just be turned off by scrams

(Chainsaw Plankton) #17

yep faction and deadspace MWDs have nice bonuses. As for the cost, they seem to sell pretty well, so to someone the cost is justified.

(Salvos Rhoska) #18

Sig tanking is underwhelming, especially on Minmatar vessels where its supposed to be a “feature” of the balance cascade.

Large part of that, is that Sig reducing bonuses stack multiplicative, not additive.

This makes the Halo Implant set particularly disappointing.

As you point out, it also makes Sig reduction practically useless/insufficient in conjunction with MWD.

Again, this doubly ironic for Minmatar AC/Artillery fits (design feature: speed), cos they oftentimes kill their own tracking when speed boosting.

(Plus: there is no Minmatar Missile HAC)

Loki came out of the T3 changes as king, especially with missile fits.
I think its only a matter of time before Loki is nerfed (probably over-nerfed, to my great regret).

(Nospais Hereboss) #19

ironically arty fit sig/shield tanking loki is what I ended up building

(system) #20

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