What is the point of loki wake limiter


(Nospais Hereboss) #1

Minmatar Propulsion Systems bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus
10% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

with MWD running my signature is still 628, big enough for full wrecking hits from large guns on zero reduction to anything except maybe torpedos

is this… is… is CCP trolling here?

someone please enlighten me on these mwd sig rad penalty reduction bonus’s in eve like on HACs too…


(Quelza) #2

Kind of hard for anyone to make a valid critical comment without knowing the rest of the fit that this was calculated with.


(Nospais Hereboss) #3

the rest of the fit is irrelevant because nothing else you would use would have an effect on signature radius…
the point is, if you were deciding on your build, why would you chose wake limiter for the sig radius penalty reduction when it is not reduced enough to help anything at all.
why even have it there, why does it even exist


(Nospais Hereboss) #4

but for the sake of it
forced to use wake limiter because of slot layout, mwd bonus with wake limiter is pointless, need to use 100mn afterburner because 10mn is too slow and mwd gimps capacitor whilst providing no bonus (because wake limiter lol)

[Loki, autocannons hunter]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Warp Scrambler II
Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Medium Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

Loki Core - Augmented Nuclear Reactor
Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Wake Limiter

Hobgoblin II x5


(Quelza) #5

I was wondering whether armor Loki’s were still a viable fitting after the T3C changes, and whether the Wake Limiter might be considered a more viable option on an armor fit than a shield fit.

I asked this because I was under the assumption that your Loki’s signature was already increased because it was shield-fit, and the MWD bloom acting on this bloated sig might be an explanation for the 628 figure you quoted.


(Nospais Hereboss) #6

all good,
well, I posted the fit for you to see
it’s an active tank shield fit (covert reconfiguration only allows active tanking bonus’s), if I remove the shield rigs then the sig is still 578 with with the wake limiter bonus, which is still big enough to make no difference to anything and thus actually giving ZERO bonus if I chose to run a mwd, it forces you into using an afterburner

if you take intercalated nanofibres giving bonus’s to agility which is nice, but then you are forced to armor tank as you will end up with 6 lows 3 mids… and it will have to be an active armor tank which is imo inferior to shield tank.

I hope someone can hop in here and shed some light on this because they way it’s looking so far fitting options are disappointingly limited if you desire a decent fit worth you 700mil or so


(zluq zabaa) #7

Regarding the fit you posted: did you actually test it? Pyfa tells me you are way beyond 100% on Powergrid and CPU with all V. I’m not currently logged in to check wether or not it’s an issue with Pyfa or your fit. Also, from the looks of it I’ll presume that you want to fly it as active shield brawler, in which case I wonder why you care about the MWD sig boost. You’d have to assume to be scrammed as well. If your plan is to orbit at 9km, with MWD on, I don’t think you’re going to be able to track well enough. Also, what’s with the Cap and the Pith X-Type Shield Booster? This doesn’t look good in any way.

To try and answer your question:

MWD Speed Boost.

If CCP lowers the Sig too much on Ships that are potentially to be used as speedy Kiters, others have too much difficulties to apply any damage to them. Together with the CovOps Cloak this could lead to very boring gameplay as in: sneak up on target, orbit at point-range, de-cloak, MWD on, tackle, F1, loot - without any good counterplay. That being said, the Loki with the Wake Limiter Subsystem is too slow to be viable for MWD fits.


(Nospais Hereboss) #8

It fits with my 3% pwg implant

Because I’m trying to understand what is the point of that sub system, there must be a reason for mwd bloom reduction but the numbers show it’s useless

the other sub system only adds agility, which is more useful but changes the module layout to force armor tank

My plan was never to use mwd except for maybe with the immobility drivers, which is going to be like this as you said:

but I’m wondering what is the point of the sig bloom reduction, if I knew its reason might be worth it.

This is the fit I might end up going with:
it is a little slow though so there’s no real escape if need be, couldn’t get a mwd to fit
sit at 24km with target webbed, just don’t try fight more than 1v1 imo

[Loki, artillery hunter]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Power Diagnostic System II

Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Medium Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II

Loki Core - Immobility Drivers
Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

Hobgoblin II x5


(Nospais Hereboss) #9

what is the point of a mwd bloom reduction sub system if it does not achieve enough of a reduction to do ANYTHING

so the logic is make it useless instead?


(zluq zabaa) #10

Why do you think it doesn’t do anything? First off, a 50% reduction in MWD sig boost increases the time others need to lock your ship, while your MWD is running. Then, the sphere your ship is for the matter of damage application, is smaller than it would be without the bonus. If you have a decent velocity or transversal velocity, the lower Sig will have an impact on how much damage Turrets or Missiles will apply to your ship.

No. Unless you sit there with 0 velocity, this is absolutely not the case.


(Nospais Hereboss) #11

not true, take for example heavy missiles base explosion radius is 125m, you wont reduce the damage based on sig radius unless your radius is below 125m, you’re only going to reduce the damage based on speed which means the wake limiter is useless. Even torpedo is 450m which is less than the wake limiter bonus of 990 sig radius down to 578
similar situation with guns, iirc sig resolution of medium projectiles is 125 so a sig radius of 578 or 990 it make no difference, if the sig radius is bigger than the resolution of gun or explosion radius of missile it has NO EFFECT… so therefor, wake limiter is useless.


(Nospais Hereboss) #12

this is only relevent to how fast you’re moving
if you’re hypothetically for the sake of argument sitting there with mwd running 578 vs 990 sig radius is going to make no difference no matter what gun is being used on you

you’re completely missing the point
I’m saying wake limiter is useless and you’re saying no wake limiter isn’t useless because speed reduces damage. Two different issues.


(zluq zabaa) #13

Why don’t you do some reading before making such statements? For damage application purposes your ship is counted as a sphere in the size of your Sig radius.

Take your example of heavy missiles. All V Skills, Mjolnir Fury Heavies have 181m Exp Radius and 102m/s Exp Velocity. Mjolnir Precision 93,8m Exp Radius and 146m/s Exp Velocity.

Now take something that has 600m Sig radius. If it sits still, full damage will apply. If it moves at 2000m/s, only a portion of the damage will apply, but this is not solely due to speed. The larger the sphere of the ship, the longer a large enough portion of it stays within the impact zone. Your Sig does not have to be smaller than the Exp Radius in order to profit from lower Sig against Missiles, but yes, you need to keep moving. Neither Speed or Sig alone do the job, only the combination of the two.

Maybe looking at Turrets can make this more clear for you. With 0 velocity and 0 transversal you can’t mitigate any damage of Turrets.

Oh well, just use Google already for Missile Damage application and likewise for Turrets and read up on that.


(Nospais Hereboss) #14

thankyou this is what I wanted to know, I was under the impression it wasn’t like that, I have been doing a search and haven’t come up with much but I will use the terms you described and see if I can further conclude my question


(Erethond) #15

For missiles, you can find the formula on the eve uni missile mechanics page.

If you are slow, then you are right that any sig radius bigger than the explosion radius will take full damage (2nd term, S/E). However, you might be able to compensate for a big sig radius, if you are fast enough (the last term S Ve/(E Vt)).

Similarly, for turrets, tracking is a function of both angular velocity and sig radius, so a smaller sig radius will help as well.

In both cases, halving your signature is the same as doubling your absolute (for missiles) or angular (for turrets) speed.


(Trinkets friend) #16

You can get your sig lower by using the T1 Restrained MWD as well (to c. 536m). It all helps.


(Nalia White) #17

1000m sig radius @ 3km/s will take more damage than 500m sig radius @ 3km/s from missiles.


(elitatwo) #18

The point of the wake limiter is flying around very fast and once you git gud at fitting ships, you may even appreciate it.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #19

Considering people still miss my onyx with a Sig of over 700 (before the mwd) petty sure you need to look at how gun tracking works. It is still easier to get under guns with that reduction than without


(elitatwo) #20

Damn, how many rapiers did light you up and unless you are solo camping a gate, don’t fit a mwd on a HIC.