Returning Capsuleer, trying to play catch up

New Citizens Q&A
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Greetings fellow Citizens.

I rage-quit in 2010 after nearly 2 years of piloting. I looked, but never found an experience comparable to EvE. I flew an Alpha clone for 2 days and fell right back in love. Just signed up for Omega last night.

So, I have trained Amarr Cruisers to level 2 cert on Cruisers and Battle cruisers. I can fly t3 Cruiser hulls but can’t afford one yet. I own a Harbinger and a Maller, but I’m getting crushed on L4’s in both. I’ll figure out what i am doing wrong on my own, I hope. My question: is there an Amarr hull that will run L4’s solo for less than 30mil total? I’ll train up to it make some isk in the meantime.

Thanks for your time, and for keeping EvE around long enough for me to get back.

Fly Safe.

Concil

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Level 4 missions for less than 30 mil? Well it probably can be done, a better question would be: should it be done? And my answer to that one is nope, it definitely shouldn’t. Level 4 missions are designed with battleships in mind, completing them with smaller hulls are feasible sometimes, but often horrendously inefficient to the point where running level 3 or even level 2 missions would be far more efficient.

On a purely hypothetical note, I think the Arbitrator would be the best bet for an Amarr lvl4 mission runner for under 30 mil. It can use drones to wear down targets while staying out of range. It would have to pick missions carefully though, since lvl4 missions are infested with Elite Frigates which hate drones. A kitey Omen or Maller could also work on certain missions but I’d want to spend closer to 50mil on them.

Yeah, they’d all be so inefficient, that running lvl 2 missions would provide a better income.

I’d recommend a ship with a minimum of 600 DPS to take on level 4s. Optimized mission runners usually project well over 1000 DPS. Tank level is a bit more variable and depends on your approach. A mission sniper needs far less tank than a brawler, because they will be out of the NPC’s range most of the time. Also, ships with higher damage output need less tank than lower damage ships since they remove threats faster. A 500 DPS tank against the mission-specific rat-type is a good number to aim for.

As a (mostly) Minmatar player, I’ve got very little experience of specific Amarr fits, so I can’t help you much on that point. But welcome back, and I wish you the best of luck

o7

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Technically yes but practically I’d look to spend more like 300mil on a lv4 ship.

Your skills sound just right for lv3 running, a decent fit harbinger should be able to warp in and kill everything in a few mins and bam onto the next mission. Chewing through smaller missions quickly will end up making more isk than chewing through big missions very slowly, and with your skills and budget it might even be very very slowly.

I threw this fit together pretty quickly, The t2 guns make the fitting pretty tight but dropping to meta guns should free up some fitting room assuming you don’t have perfect fitting skills. I haven’t used a harbinger for missions in a long time, but I did somewhat recently go do some in a ferox with a pretty similar fit so I believe it should work well. Bring a few different ammo types, I usually do multi, standard, and microwave at the least, can you can fill in a few gaps if you like, lasers can pretty easily swap crystals to get good damage.

[Harbinger, Harbinger]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

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I’ve got to agree with this (sorry, OP). It’s going to be a really rough go, and due to the time it may take you to get through it alive, you can probably plow through a lot more L3 missions and make a lot more ISK in that time that you would otherwise be spending grinding through a L4 and squeezing through. And, less chance of losing what you are flying today while you save for something fancier tomorrow.

One other caution I just want to toss out- it sounds like you’ve been following training supplementary core skills as well- definitely keep that up. Skilling into a hull but not having the supporting skills (engineering, weapons, The Magic 14, etc.) to utilize it effectively won’t make the most of your new investment.

So, what I would probably suggest is this:

  • Stick with L2/3 missions for the moment while you build up some ISK and continue to train
  • Take on come combat atoms and DED sites to mix things up and get some (hopefully good) mods for your ships and more ISK
  • Try out some additional activities like exploration or Project Discovery to keep things fresh and get a couple of additional income sources.

PD can be a great way to get some seed money to play with. If you enjoy it, are good at it, and can get your accuracy up, it can be pretty lucrative (I average 1.5m ticks with 99% accuracy, so it adds up quick for a new toon looking for seed money).

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For survival:

Cruisers are versatile, but they don’t have the plethora of low slots for armor that battleships do, and as a result you must usually choose between having DPS and having armor, on a cruiser. Versatility means, for example, the option to fit an Arbitrator with no guns (just drones), so you can have enough power grid for battleship-sized 1600mm armor plates, but that pretty much requires T2 drones so you can at least do some DPS. But in general, cruisers are skirmish fighters, and if the opponent out-matches you (a room full of battleships in Angel Extravaganza), you need to have two things: high skills so you can overheat everything and squeeze all the performance out of your meager armor and resist modules, AND game skill so you know when to bug out to repair, what targets to kill first, etc.

Battlecruisers are glass cannons. You get more low slots, but all that extra power-grid that you get is going to be taken up by fitting them 6-8 guns/missiles that you’re supposed to fit on these ships. Battlecruisers are not a step towards being a battleship brick tank, they’re actually a step towards being a more nasty hit-and-run cruiser. You lose some of the mobility and smaller size that cruisers rely on for survival against large guns, and you get more DPS, and more low slots for heat sinks / more DPS.

So, because you have low-ish support skills, you can switch to a battlecruiser to do L3 missions (that’s what they’re intended for, so low-ish skills will still work), and as you shore up the skills for T2 weapons and T2 defenses, overheating, etc., try L4 missions for the purpose of learning when to bug out and when to stay. Because, again, your battlecruiser will be a hit-and-run cannon.

EDIT: Also, you signed up for Omega. Wait a couple days, and consider that for the cost of an additional 1 month of Omega, you can get some PLEX and sell them on the market, for close to 1B ISK, which should be sufficient to afford fitting a few battlecruisers or even T3 cruisers. This’ll let you get established and not have to grind ISK during the time when you’re trying to decide whether this game is fun for you. You can always try to daytrade in Jita or grind missions once you have the proper ships, and make your 1B ISK back, buy PLEX, and apply it towards 1 month of subscription later. It’s basically borrowing a month, to be repaid later, so you can avoid the unfun limitations you have now.

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First, let me say thank you all for your time. There is some really good advice here.

I will show my current fit below, but bottom line, I can use t2 pulse or t1 beams, and for whatever reason, I get better dps out of the beams. Not great, but decent.

I tried a l4 and failed miserably. Like i said, it has been a long, long time since I was here. As far as I know, anom scanning and wormholes didn’t exist. In fact, I don’t have a clue what “combat atoms” or DED sites are. I have been looking for L3s in my area to run, splitting my time between that an d mining. I’ll continue training and saving for my BS for now.

Thanks again. If you see me around, feel free to stop by. I’m looking for a corp eventually too.

o7

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I will be researching DED sites and atoms tonight. Thank you for the suggestion.

I am feeling overwhelmed by all of the changes, but I am really excited too.

Fly straight

Concil

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Awesome, but I’ll warn you that you’ll probably get some weird results because autocorrect created “combat atoms” out of “combat ANOMS” in my post :tired_face:

Anoms, as in anomalies- here’s a great article that summarizes things:

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Combat_sites

And I think you’ll like the changes. Mostly, it’s the same old EVE, and part of the joy is the learning curve (to me, anyway). If more questions come up, just let us know and we’ll try to help!

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There have been numerous balance changes since you ragequit, and one of them made beam lasers better at DPS (better than pulses) and worse at tracking than they were before.

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That is very tough. To be honest L4s for less then 30 mil is extremely tough just by itself. Double this because Amarr ships are overall the worst for PvE.

I would honestly train into something else. Not sure where all your skills are at, if you have zero shield skills then train Gallente + drones, if you have missle skills you can try Minmatar as a few of those ships can be fairly effectively fitted for missles + armor, they aren’t the optimum fits, but will suffice.

For PvE its best to get main weapon system that does not rely on capacitor and shields are better overall then armor, though that gain is situational.

Do not put that 30 mil restriction on yourself. Just run L3s instead. Sure there are some selective L4s you can do that low, but you’ll end up declining too many missions and screw up your standings pretty bad which is completely not worth it.

L3s on the other hand can be done in almost any cruiser and you can easily make something like 30-40+ mil per hout off of full clears + some salvage on L3s. So just do that for 3-4 playsessions and you can get yourself a nice ship and it will be far easier then trying to run L4s under 30 mil in amarr ship.

Once you have a nice ship, you can train into other things. Ideally, go for a Gila, Rattlesnake and either a Loki or Tengu. That will pretty much have you covered PvE wise.

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Thank you for your reply.

I have fitted a Harbi that is running lvl3s pretty well. I crosstrained hybrid turrets and missles to small in 2009, so I can fly any frigate or ceuiser t1, but I really like the zaps, even given their limitations.

I have reviewed my skills, and it turns out i was only 18 days from t2 amarr frigates, cruisers, and battleships. Im now running a well equipped Harbi, and training a blackops frig to sneak through anoms. Give me two weeks and ill be ready to apply to a corp with a no bs bs.

I wish I hadn’t left butt-hurt. Eden rocks.

o7

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Well, sadly, it turns out I have not yet caught up.

I have now popped 2 Harbingers running lvl 3s. I would love to have a conversation with someone familiar with this hull that could a) show me where i went horribly wrong and b) smack me in the head with a blaster.

I will be mining and exploring to finance my next debacle. In the meantime, thank you all for your help

Concil

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I can’t say I’m familiar with the Harbinger hull, but happy to help if I can. A couple of things that will be useful for us to give you some guidance:

  • Please post your current fit that you have been using and had trouble with
  • Please describe anything you identified as issues (running out of cap, not enough DPS, etc.)
  • Please describe if there were consistencies in how you died (you got swarmed, you got pointed, bad triggers, etc.)
  • Please describe how you like to fly (brawler, sniper, kiter, etc.)
  • What enemies are you fighting?

With that info, we can see if we can get you up and running a bit more successfully!

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Thank you Leah. I’m pretty sure the consensus will be some major failure in mechanics on my part.

My fit.

[Harbinger, New Harbi]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Damage Control II

X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead I x5

Imperial Navy Multifrequency M x6

The mission was New Frontiers - An Unexpected Twist (5 of 7)

I warped in 70km from most of the target station. The neut towers got me at 65km, way before I was in range for either beams or drones. I didn’t think to bring radio crystals with me, only had MF, so my falloff was 30km. I got popped both times when they added WD to the mix and I couldn’t get out. I still don’t know where the WD came from. There are Stasis towers and Neut towers. I know that. The second time, I saved a spot much closer to the base, warped out to safe, and let my Harbi heal up. Then I warped back to 0 at the safe spot. I never had a chance to move. I got multi webbed, multi neuted, and WD’d. Never had a chance.

In general, I prefer to kite in anything bigger than a Destroyer. I use a coercer as a salvage boat after missions for a few extra isk. Usually I cook the frigs from a distance first as they approach. At ~550 dps that isn’t too tough. Then I coast in on mwd pulses and clean up the slower prey, and finish any structures last. This usually opens up all of the waves and helps maximize my bounty/salvage isk. I prefer that to blitzing, as i find warp in, blast, and split to be pretty boring. In this case, I think i just got too close and took too much dps for my fit. I still don’t know how I would take out the neuts fast enough to hold cap, without getting so close to the rest of the launchers that I get popped.

Your time is greatly appreciated. I do recognize that I lost 130mil isk to stupidity. I will have plenty of time to think about it while mining in .5 space to finance my next attempt. If you have any suggestions, I will have plenty of time to read and ponder them.

Fly safe.
o7
Concil

1 Like
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Looks like a few things went wrong here. Your fit looks to be quite reasonable to me, though I would probably recommend having some Light Drones to take out frigates a little more effectively, since that’s where those scrams came from in one of the spawns. Also, as you say, it looks like range was an issue here are well, so having those Radios would definitely have made a difference. Last, unless you swapped resists, for this particular branch, you wound up with the wrong resist profile (would have wanted EXP/KIN).

Looking at the mission, it looks like you were also dealing with some attack triggers and some timed triggers, so I’m guessing some of those were set off at unfortunate times and you basically got swamped by ewar and DPS. In this case, taking out a tower at range, cleaning up the spawn, moving on to the next tower, etc. would have worked, but again, range…

I think the fit is generally fine, but doing it again, consider:

  • Come prepared to engage at range
  • Manage the spawns as effectively as possible
  • Take out a tower and its spawn. Repeat.
  • Consider swapping out the web for another CR or battery for this mission. Since you’ll be at range, it won’t be used and the extra cap might take some of the neut pressure off.
  • Consider some light drones to take out those elite frigates a little more effectively

Others may disagree with my on this, but those are my thoughts.

Nope, you lost to a couple of miscalculations and circumstances. That’s not at all stupidity. It happens to all of us :slight_smile:

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Leah,
I just looked back at Eve survival and realized my resist isssue. I went passive the first time, eng nano 2 and reactive, and the second run I based on the damage from part 1 of the mission (sigh). I’ll pay more attention next time.
I’ll also pack my drone bay with lights. I bailed on my 5 medium to survive and warped back in with no drones. That won’t happen again either.
I appreciate the suggestions Leah.
Fly safe
Concil

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[Harbinger, *New Harbi]
Heat Sink II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Damage Control II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead I x5

Radio M x6

Based on your input, and some research, here is the fit I plan to try next time. It is cap stable for me, according to the simulator.

~66.1M isk in Amarr space.

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You may reconnect to your drones when you return on grid (right click on capacitor/HUD - chose “reconnect drones”), In Lvl 3 there is a chance some drones survive your absence.
And 30m ships: I just bought a Gnosis for exactly 30m, and fitted stuff I had from other L3 missions, so including rigs it’s not more than 40m ISK to invest. There you can fit different weapons like artillery which is invulnerable to neuting.

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