Effiecient lvl 4 running ship advice


(Detardus) #1

Now hear me out, I’ve done some searching I know there is no “best” lvl 4 running ship it depends on the player and the goal so I’m hoping you can help me find my personal best ship for this moment in time :slight_smile:

Old EVE player from years ago, decently skilled in gallenete ships, weaponary and drones. I used to solo lvl 4’s in an ishtar HAC but apparantly I don’t own one anymore (no idea where that went). Logging in a few days ago I farted about in a frigate doing level 2’s to find my space feet again and feel fairly comfortable now I remember how to play.

Last night me and a friend (also old player whom i convinced to rejoin) did some level 4’s together and I bravely took out my fed navy dominix as the only BS I still had in hanger. I ran it as it was fitted from back in 2011… and it was rubbish. DPS was okay(ish) but my (shield) tank was bad and soon as shield repper was active I lost cap in under a minute. The full fit is worth 790m according to fit window but I felt ineffective and ultimately had to run away to repair (2mil repair!) whilst my friend plodded around in a Gila no trouble tanking the entire encounter!

I’m not blaming the domi - it was clearly fitted wrong. Maybe it was okay in 2011 or maybe it was never good. But I do remember way back when getting bored in lvl 4’s and frustrated with my DPS yawning waiting for everything to die and seeing a little Gila run around missiling the crap out of everything made it clear I need a bit of a rethink.

So! I have no money apparently (like 60mil) but I’m not beyond buying and selling plex in a pinch. My default action is to get the Ishtar back but is there any ship and fit combo anyone would like to recommend for survivability AND dps in the gallente range? I do have the pre-reqs for mauraders, but the kronos costs so much now I’d realy need convincing hard that it was a good idea. Otherwise its between BS and HAC I guess? I don’t need the min/max BEST fit, some items cost Xmillion more for 0.02% improvement and not intersted in that - but money well spent is what I’d like to be about! :slight_smile:

Thanks for your time!


(JC Mieyli) #2

what ships can you fly and what weapons can you use
are you focused solely on gallente with drones and rails or do you have other options
something like an eos could work if you can use command ship


(Jenne Wain) #3

Welcome back to New Eden!

A couple of pieces of general advice, since, as you say, it all depends on the player, skills, etc.

The Domi is still a very viable L4 runner- so long as it is fitted out properly. I will say that you would likely be much, much better off using an armor tank instead of a shield tank with it though. Your MMV, of course :slight_smile:

I would suggest spending some time in a fitting tool like PYFA to examine your fit and how it’s currently working with your skills to see what has changed and what modifications you need to make to the fit.

Also, for PVE, it’s probably a good idea to do rat-specific fittings based on the NPC as opposed to an omni tank. You don’t mention how you had tanked it, but doing a mission-specific tank will be a good idea. If you want to post your fit, I (and I’m sure others) would be happy to make some suggestions.

Regarding repairs, one other big change is that you can repair for free in player citadels and stations (as long as you can dock there) so that will save you some money too.

As for your Ishtar, unless something weird happened, you should be able to find where it’s hiding in your Asset List in your Neocom- however, my advice about the Domi applies to that as well- check the fit in PYFA before taking it out.


(Jenne Wain) #4

If it helps, here is my sniper Domi fit that served me pretty well in L4s. Again, skills will have an impact, of course:

[Dominix]

Coreli A-Type Kinetic Plating
Coreli A-Type Thermal Plating
Large Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Drone Navigation Computer II
Sensor Booster II
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I

Wasp I x5
Hornet II x5
Vespa II x5
Warden II x5
Hornet II x5

Javelin L x4000
Spike L x4000
Targeting Range Script x1
ECCM Script x1


(Detardus) #6

The “export to bbcode” option in evemon did not work well at all, half of it was unprocessed and the other half (like level icon images) just did not appear at all… will find another solution XD

EDIT

Okay, take 2. Thanks again for all the replies - here is my skills list from evemon for those that requested to know my training - if I could figure out how to turn this into a collapsable list I would XD

Jenne, your domi fit looks much better than mine XD I was surprised to find my rigged for shields too.

SKILLS
=======================================================================
Armor, 8 Skills, 3,162,510 Points
  EM Armor Compensation (2)                       L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Explosive Armor Compensation (2)                L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Hull Upgrades (2)                               L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Kinetic Armor Compensation (2)                  L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Mechanics (1)                                   L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Remote Armor Repair Systems (2)                 L4 90,510/512,000 Points
  Repair Systems (1)                              L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Thermal Armor Compensation (2)                  L5 512,000/512,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Corporation Management, 0 Skill, 0 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Drones, 15 Skills, 6,101,523 Points
  Amarr Drone Specialization (5)                  L2 7,072/1,280,000 Points
  Caldari Drone Specialization (5)                L2 7,072/1,280,000 Points
  Drone Avionics (1)                              L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Drone Durability (5)                            L4 226,275/1,280,000 Points
  Drone Interfacing (5)                           L5 1,280,000/1,280,000 Points
  Drone Navigation (1)                            L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Drone Sharpshooting (1)                         L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Drones (1)                                      L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Gallente Drone Specialization (5)               L4 226,275/1,280,000 Points
  Heavy Drone Operation (5)                       L5 1,280,000/1,280,000 Points
  Light Drone Operation (1)                       L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Medium Drone Operation (2)                      L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Mining Drone Operation (2)                      L2 2,829/512,000 Points
  Repair Drone Operation (3)                      L0 0/768,000 Points
  Sentry Drone Interfacing (5)                    L5 1,280,000/1,280,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Electronic Systems, 5 Skills, 17,058 Points
  Cloaking (6)                                    L2 8,486/1,536,000 Points
  Electronic Warfare (2)                          L2 2,829/512,000 Points
  Propulsion Jamming (3)                          L2 4,243/768,000 Points
  Sensor Linking (3)                              L1 750/768,000 Points
  Target Painting (3)                             L1 750/768,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Engineering, 9 Skills, 4,632,000 Points
  Advanced Weapon Upgrades (6)                    L5 1,536,000/1,536,000 Points
  Capacitor Management (3)                        L5 768,000/768,000 Points
  Capacitor Systems Operation (1)                 L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  CPU Management (1)                              L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Electronics Upgrades (2)                        L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Energy Grid Upgrades (2)                        L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Power Grid Management (1)                       L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Thermodynamics (3)                              L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Weapon Upgrades (2)                             L5 512,000/512,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fleet Support, 3 Skills, 519,322 Points
  Leadership (1)                                  L1 250/256,000 Points
  Mining Director (5)                             L2 7,072/1,280,000 Points
  Mining Foreman (2)                              L5 512,000/512,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gunnery, 14 Skills, 6,606,354 Points
  Controlled Bursts (2)                           L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Gunnery (1)                                     L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Large Hybrid Turret (5)                         L5 1,280,000/1,280,000 Points
  Large Railgun Specialization (8)                L4 362,039/2,048,000 Points
  Medium Hybrid Turret (3)                        L5 768,000/768,000 Points
  Medium Railgun Specialization (5)               L4 226,275/1,280,000 Points
  Motion Prediction (2)                           L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Rapid Firing (2)                                L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Sharpshooter (2)                                L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Small Blaster Specialization (3)                L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Small Hybrid Turret (1)                         L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Small Railgun Specialization (3)                L4 135,765/768,000 Points
  Surgical Strike (4)                             L5 1,024,000/1,024,000 Points
  Trajectory Analysis (5)                         L4 226,275/1,280,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Missiles, 9 Skills, 383,303 Points
  Cruise Missiles (5)                             L3 40,000/1,280,000 Points
  Heavy Missiles (3)                              L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Light Missiles (2)                              L3 16,000/512,000 Points
  Missile Bombardment (2)                         L2 2,829/512,000 Points
  Missile Launcher Operation (1)                  L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Rapid Launch (2)                                L3 16,000/512,000 Points
  Rockets (1)                                     L2 5,402/256,000 Points
  Target Navigation Prediction (2)                L3 16,000/512,000 Points
  Warhead Upgrades (5)                            L2 7,072/1,280,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Navigation, 8 Skills, 449,171 Points
  Acceleration Control (4)                        L1 1,000/1,024,000 Points
  Afterburner (1)                                 L4 45,255/256,000 Points
  Evasive Maneuvering (2)                         L4 90,510/512,000 Points
  Fuel Conservation (2)                           L2 2,829/512,000 Points
  High Speed Maneuvering (5)                      L2 7,072/1,280,000 Points
  Micro Jump Drive Operation (5)                  L1 1,250/1,280,000 Points
  Navigation (1)                                  L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Warp Drive Operation (1)                        L4 45,255/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neural Enhancement, 2 Skills, 137,180 Points
  Cybernetics (3)                                 L4 135,765/768,000 Points
  Infomorph Psychology (1)                        L2 1,415/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Planet Management, 4 Skills, 65,000 Points
  Command Center Upgrades (4)                     L3 32,000/1,024,000 Points
  Interplanetary Consolidation (4)                L1 1,000/1,024,000 Points
  Planetology (3)                                 L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Remote Sensing (1)                              L3 8,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Production, 2 Skills, 280,000 Points
  Advanced Industry (3)                           L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Industry (1)                                    L5 256,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Resource Processing, 12 Skills, 1,877,785 Points
  Astrogeology (3)                                L5 768,000/768,000 Points
  Ice Harvesting (1)                              L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Mining (1)                                      L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Mining Upgrades (4)                             L1 1,000/1,024,000 Points
  Omber Processing (2)                            L0 0/512,000 Points
  Plagioclase Processing (1)                      L4 45,255/256,000 Points
  Pyroxeres Processing (1)                        L4 45,255/256,000 Points
  Reprocessing (1)                                L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Reprocessing Efficiency (3)                     L4 135,765/768,000 Points
  Salvaging (3)                                   L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Scordite Processing (1)                         L4 45,255/256,000 Points
  Veldspar Processing (1)                         L4 45,255/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rigging, 5 Skills, 38,006 Points
  Armor Rigging (3)                               L2 19,756/768,000 Points
:  (Currently training to level III, completes 2018-02-21 18:13:24 UTC)
  Astronautics Rigging (3)                        L1 750/768,000 Points
  Electronic Superiority Rigging (3)              L1 750/768,000 Points
  Jury Rigging (2)                                L3 16,000/512,000 Points
  Shield Rigging (3)                              L1 750/768,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scanning, 2 Skills, 12,243 Points
  Astrometrics (3)                                L2 4,243/768,000 Points
  Survey (1)                                      L3 8,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Science, 4 Skills, 288,250 Points
  Laboratory Operation (1)                        L1 250/256,000 Points
  Metallurgy (3)                                  L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Research (1)                                    L3 8,000/256,000 Points
  Science (1)                                     L5 256,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shields, 8 Skills, 3,343,530 Points
  EM Shield Compensation (2)                      L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Explosive Shield Compensation (2)               L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Kinetic Shield Compensation (2)                 L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Shield Management (3)                           L5 768,000/768,000 Points
  Shield Operation (1)                            L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Shield Upgrades (2)                             L4 90,510/512,000 Points
  Tactical Shield Manipulation (4)                L4 181,020/1,024,000 Points
  Thermal Shield Compensation (2)                 L5 512,000/512,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Social, 3 Skills, 48,000 Points
  Connections (3)                                 L3 24,000/768,000 Points
  Negotiation (2)                                 L3 16,000/512,000 Points
  Social (1)                                      L3 8,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spaceship Command, 13 Skills, 6,625,100 Points
  Assault Frigates (4)                            L4 181,020/1,024,000 Points
  Exhumers (5)                                    L3 40,000/1,280,000 Points
  Gallente Battlecruiser (6)                      L4 271,530/1,536,000 Points
  Gallente Battleship (8)                         L5 2,048,000/2,048,000 Points
  Gallente Cruiser (5)                            L5 1,280,000/1,280,000 Points
  Gallente Destroyer (2)                          L3 16,000/512,000 Points
  Gallente Frigate (2)                            L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Gallente Industrial (4)                         L4 181,020/1,024,000 Points
  Heavy Assault Cruisers (6)                      L4 271,530/1,536,000 Points
  Mining Barge (4)                                L5 1,024,000/1,024,000 Points
  Mining Frigate (2)                              L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  ORE Industrial (4)                              L3 32,000/1,024,000 Points
  Spaceship Command (1)                           L5 256,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Structure Management, 1 Skill, 750 Points
  Anchoring (3)                                   L1 750/768,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subsystems, 0 Skill, 0 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Targeting, 4 Skills, 1,024,750 Points
  Advanced Target Management (3)                  L1 750/768,000 Points
  Long Range Targeting (2)                        L5 512,000/512,000 Points
  Signature Analysis (1)                          L5 256,000/256,000 Points
  Target Management (1)                           L5 256,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trade, 4 Skills, 103,003 Points
  Broker Relations (2)                            L4 90,510/512,000 Points
  Contracting (1)                                 L1 250/256,000 Points
  Marketing (3)                                   L2 4,243/768,000 Points
  Trade (1)                                       L3 8,000/256,000 Points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

(Jenne Wain) #7

Nice! With your skills, you’d definitely do well in that fit I posted (and could probably improve upon it).

Regarding EFT, I understand that there is some question about its current state and future development. PYFA is updated very regularly and is active. I’m not religious about either one, but I use PFYA since I run on Macs and it’s what I’m used to. I’d suggest giving that a whirl to see if you like it.


(JC Mieyli) #8

you can probably look to train into a rattlesnake
your missile skills are a bit sucky atm but take caldari bs to 4
and focus some missile skills and it wont take long to get a nice rs fit
go with the domi fit for now tho


(Chainsaw Plankton) #9

Domi has a very flexible slot layout, it can easily fit a shield or armor tank so it’s not an obvious problem. Loading up the low slots with damage mods and then shield tanking is viable. Or you can use the lows for armor tank and damage mods and use the mids for utility. Sounds like you have an XL shield booster and nothing to restore cap if it’s draining that fast. Typically on a mission ship you should only use an XL booster sometimes and stop boosting or cap inject if your cap goes below peak recharge (~25%). Don’t need to keep your shields at 100% all the time. I run a pithum c-type medium shield booster when I want something I can turn on and forget, with good resists and high damage it will hold.

At some point the Domi lost it’s hybrid damage bonus, but gained a drone range/tracking bonus, navy domi kept the dual damage bonus. Honestly I don’t really like either. With just drones the domi dps isn’t great, and with the dual weapon systems the navy domi has to sacrifice something to get good damage.

Gila is a very interesting cruiser, has a massive medium drone damage bonus, can fit a decent tank and since it is a cruiser as long as it has some speed it’s hard for mission npcs to hit it. The medium drones can largely shrug off aggro with the HP bonus, and will kill the frigs that target them quickly.

Ishtar is similar to the gila. Ishtar has a bit more flexibility in drones as it’s damage bonus applies to different sized drones, but is much smaller. Drone aggro mechanics may have changed since you last played, Ishtar will get good damage with heavy drones, but they will also likely take aggro. Ishtar could also drop sentry drones to snipe some of the small ships off the field early, but then you have to stay close to be able to scoop them if they take aggro, I usually just sit still or orbit at 1500m. Also it doesn’t do a lot of damage with sentries, although since the drones don’t need to fly off to their target they get a nice effective damage boost.

The best min/max for missions can be found here:


(Detardus) #10

I’ve got home from work and started training up some missile skills to work towards that rattlesnake as suggested :slight_smile: Thanks Jenne and Chainsaw for the wealth of information its really good! Now I am home I am also able to export my navy domi fit so I can show you what I was flying last night:

[Dominix Navy Issue, Funaho - NAVY SNIPER]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Dread Guristas Thermal Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Large Micro Jump Drive

425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
425mm Railgun II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Ionic Field Projector I



Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
Ogre II x1

Antimatter Charge L x1592

I apparently saved that fit years ago as “navy sniper” so I guess I never really intended it to tank much - but its performance was flat out awful. The question I guess is do I try and salvage that fit or do I strip it, potentially sell everything and replace it with an armor based build like Jenne’s?


(elitatwo) #11

My advice, delete it pronto.


(JC Mieyli) #12

lmjd didnt exist in 2011 :slight_smile:
but the fit is okay maybe you forgot to switch harderners or something
and forgot navi domi is a relic of the past
standard domi suits drone purposes better


(Detardus) #13

I was on briefly in 2015 according to my logs :slight_smile:

Jenne, why the 350mm over 425mm turrets? struggling to find pros and cons


(Jenne Wain) #14

Honestly, the difference isn’t huge either way. I went with the 350s for a bit of a bump in tracking speed. You do get more range and higher volley damage with the 425s, though DPS is only 5 points more for me.

For the record, I would have suggested a Rattlesnake as well, which has become my go-to for running L4s, but I wanted to be sensitive to your budget :slight_smile:

And personally, I don’t like using a MJD in L4s. It’s great for getting to range, but I found it awkward to used for mid-range pockets that seem to result in a lot of slowboating around- thus I went with the MWD for burning to range and getting around the grid when needed. Totally a personal preference thing.


(Chainsaw Plankton) #15

fit looks like it could possibly be serviceable, it’s similar to many fits I’ve seen posted for the ship. But like I said I really don’t like the split weapons, 7 slots go to drones and 8 to guns, doesn’t leave much room for tank. And only using one weapon system it becomes non-competitive with other ships.

with an MJD a lot of people will jump to 100 where stuff can’t hit them, but I don’t like it as it also means less outgoing dps. Also I don’t like waiting on the 3min cool down.

I’d suggest dropping some damage/application for a bit more tank, and as you get comfortable running the missions again you can drop the extra tank. 2 DDA 1 Mag stab leaves 4 slots for 3 resists and a large rep if you want to go armor, Or lose a tracking link or two for extra hardener, cap booster, or cap battery. Probably means you need to use the longer ranged sentries more often, or use a low slot for the drone tracking enhancer, which is probably a new mod for you.

As for the rigs I don’t really like the ones you have but can’t easily recommend better. If you want to go cap stable triple CCCs, but I’d probably rather go cap injected or undersized booster,


(erg cz) #16

Large micro jump drvie Dominix sniper fit can do any L4 mission. Any. With only two tanking mods - rest is damage and application. Instant application, without lost volleys due to missile fly time. Trick is the unique drone range bonus, which allows you to get over 100 km optimal for 3 kind of T2 sentry drones and even Garde has 100 km falloff. So you LMJD away, blap what you need (range is your tank) and LMJD back, kill the rest.
Rattle snake will give you more paper DPS and should be your next step if you want full room clean up. You will be partly limited to two damage type for your missiles and your drones will have meh range. Still will perform slightly better, than Dominix.
Many L4 missioner do just few blitzable missions and use Machariel for that. Google mission blitz guide for fits.
CCP once upon a time made a tool for the job. It is called maraduer class ship.
Use eve-survival site to get information, what damage type to tank and wat to inflict.


(Anderson Geten) #17

A very important note is that this does not work with guristas/caldari/mordus


(Detardus) #18

took Jennes fit out last night for angel extravaganza, had friend in the gila and i kept my distance - overall worked very well! i feel ike i could use some more dps but its not needed when two manning. Frustratingly i ended up aggroing the entire bonus pocket and although i did tank it for sometime i eventually had to leave when they got me to hull and couldnt get back in because no tag, lost those juicy bounties :frowning:

have a question about range - if i have say spike and it says optimal range within 120m is that legit good for 0-120m? i feel like the closer something is the less i can hit it and wondered if ammos had a min effective range as well as max?


(Detardus) #20

LOL!!! hahahaha well screw you too you mr toxic elite XD Honoured you crawled out your hole to deliver that one!

Seriously though you’re missing the point. Way back when, I spent alot of time in null although my role in TSA was mostly as a webber/scrammer and I didn’t do much fighting. I removed to high sec when life became too complex for me to balance and ultimately left.

I don’t think I ever FULLY understood turret mechanics, but what I DID know I’ve completely forgot. This is why when I first rejoined I flew out in a frigate until I could remember things like how you target an enemy and how you jump somewhere and literally everything. Marriage, bereavement and our first child have ways of pushing things out of your mind believe it or not.

And thats why I started posting stuff here - once I would of fitted my own ships but I’m a) way behind on the meta and b) forgot what I used to know. I understand tracking is a thing and spike was a bad example in that case (just picked an ammo with huge long range) but you again missed the question entirely which was when an ammo says optimal within X does it literally mean 0 to X or is their penalties to the damage in the low end /ignoring tracking/. It was just a clarification.

But thanks for your time regardless XD glhf.


(elitatwo) #21

I assume railguns here and those have really bad tracking the closer a potential target is to your ship.
Tracking becomes less relevant at long(er) ranges, so you will hit just fine.

You could switch to javelin but the tracking will still be very bad below 20km. I would let drones deal with those or you make a second jump in the other direction to hit them again.


(Jenne Wain) #22

Glad it mostly worked! As for the range, as others (some more politely than others) have mentioned, you ran into tracking issues. Essentially, as the NPCs get closer, your guns can’t move fast enough to hit them. This is referred to as “getting under your guns” and means that they are essentially speed tanking you.

The impact of this will vary depending on the size and speed of the rat, but small, faster things will be a problem here. So, I use different weapons on rats and different distances:

Long range (>50 km): Sentries and rails
Medium range (50-20km): Mainly rails (if using Wardens)
Close range (<20 km): Medium, light, and heavy drones (depending on the ship size)

Also, without getting into a detailed discussion of angular and radial velocity, as the rats are closing in on you, they are heading right fore you so you can pop them with turrets and sentries fairly easily. Once they start orbiting you, don’t even bother with your guns as you will just waste ammo. If you haven’t taken them out by that point either send out your non-sentry combat drones or use a MJD (if fitted) to jump to range again.