L4 Solo mission running, what missile ship/fit is best to run? Help for new and returning players

INTRO

Hi everyone, I am returning to the game after a long absence and will mostly be running missions with friends. Having come back to the game, it seems that the debates around what ship/fit to use are as vibrant as they ever were, and as confusing.

Being a bit of an analytical geek, I thought I would do some (crude) analysis on the stated topic (rather than simply ask ‘what should I use’) and see what results come up.

Critically, I am keen to see what everyone (especially those veteran players) think of my analysis and hopefully readers, especially those new or returning to the game will find the information helpful in making their decision on what ship/fit combo to use.

TLDR

As this is going to be something of a detailed post, here is my ‘TLDR’ summary:

  • Regardless of ship type, only use ‘bling’ fits with loads of faction/officer mods if you can throw away billions of isk without blinking. Such fits typically offer only limited benefit at huge cost.

  • Golem’s are the best of the Caldari missile ships for L4 mission running by no small margin. With a T2 fit at 1.6bn ISK, they are not completely out of reach in terms of ISK (especially for those who used to use T3 ships). But Golem’s are a ganking target simply because they are a Marauder, increasing the risk factor.

  • CNI Raven’s and Raven’s with T2 fits are cost effective, but lack the punch of the Golem so will be slower through missions, but may not be of interest to gankers (especially a standard Raven). If you are worried about ganking, can’t throw away 1-2bn on a Golem or don’t have the SP for Marauders then this is your best bet.

  • Drakes (CNI/standard) with T2 fits are extremely cost effective, but are unlikely to survive L4 missions (solo) without warping out. But if you are doing L3 missions solo or flying L4’s with a fleet they probably represent a good option if you are low skilled, low ISK or in a high risk area.

  • Tengu’s (whilst not currently part of this analysis) are unlikely to score well owing to changes to the T3’s in recent years (showing my age now!) and have therefore been omitted. If people feel it’s needed, I will look to add T3’s into this analysis in the future.

THE DETAIL

Brace for impact people, here it comes! If you don’t want to see the detail but do want slightly more than the TLDR above, skip to the bottom to see ‘conclusions’ for a little extra information.

Assumptions, data and approach:

  • This is a crude/fast analysis designed to inform, not win a prize for analytical approach/excellence.

  • This analysis seeks to understand the cost/benefit correlation between different ship types, classes and fitting approaches, it does not seek to identify the optimal ship fit for any type/class.

  • Ship fits may not represent perfect/optimal/’meta’ fits for each ship type, but hopefully they are close enough for the purposes of this assessment.

  • Ships are fitted in two ways ‘advanced’ (A) and ‘elite’ (E). Advanced fits may only use T2 modules (or lower in some rare cases where CPU was an issue). Elite fits use faction or deadspace mods in place of key T2 mods (weapons, boosters, shield, MWD/AB) on a ‘cost no object’ basis.

  • Ship fits are based on Aceface’s ‘anti gank’ fits, especially the Golem’s (see YouTube).

  • Ship fits are provided below.

  • Ship builds constructed in EFT, v2.51.0.

  • Pricing comes from EFT (but aligns closely with the EVE ship fitting simulator tool).

  • Drones are excluded from fits/DPS.

  • A baseline of skill level 5 on all skills was used for the analysis to keep scores consistent and clear.

  • All fits and calculations in EFT did not include any implants.

  • High damage kinetic (Scourge) missiles were always used in the weapons slots (cruise/HAM/HM).

  • Be aware, there are differences between calculations made in EFT vs. EVE fitting simulator.

  • No weightings have been applied to this analysis, which would be interesting but seemed like overkill for this analysis at this stage.

  • The key items this analysis considers to be ‘of interest’ are; DPS, effective hit points (EHP) and (tangentially), ‘tank’ (which is used here to describe the number of EHP recovered per second from a shield booster).

  • Please note this post is made by a character who is not used in game (and is for forum posts only), please do not DM in game as in game mail is not monitored.

Raw Data

The raw data collected is shown in the image below:
1

Note: EHP is in K, i.e. 200 = 200,000 ehp

Cost vs Benefit

As this is a ‘paper based’ analysis, it does not attempt to take data from experience/mission running tests in EVE/informed insights from other players (of which there is a lot of good material on YouTube).

A good test to add to this would be to take these fits out for a period of time (5-10 days) and calculate their ISK/hour ratio. This would provide useful ‘real word’ evidence direct from EVE with which to test this assessment. I hope to do this in the future, but for now we must rely on raw numbers.

This analysis defines ‘benefit’ (or ‘effectiveness’) as being a very crude focus on DPS output and EHP. Tank is discussed later. The cost is derived from EFT pricing estimates.

Note: When reading a cost/benefit plot top right is considered best, bottom left is worst. The closer to the ‘right wall’ the fit is, the more effective it is. The closer towards the bottom a fit is, the more expensive it is.

There are two key cost/benefit assessments that need to be made.

The first seeks to combine EHP and DPS into a single ‘score’. This is done by ranking the 14 fits in order of highest to lowest DPS and allocating a number based on their ‘finishing’ position - 14 being highest, 1 being lowest. This is then repeated for EHP and the score combined. By using this score, cross referenced against the fits estimated cost, it is possible to draw a ‘cost vs benefit plot’ that combines the two key measures of merit (DPS and EHP).

This draws the following plot:
2

The second seeks looks only at DPS vs cost. The rationale here will be explained in more detail later.

This draws the following plot:
3

The inference of both plots is that the more expensive ‘E’ fits certainly provide more DPS and often (but critically, not always) a better combined DPS/EHP score. However, there is a very clear separation between the ‘E’ fits and the ‘A’ fits in terms of cost, most notably for the Golem (E).

A simple analysis based on the plots alone could conclude that provided you have the ISK, it is better to plug for the best ‘E’ fit ship you can afford and go off making loads of ISK. But sadly, EVE is not that simple.

Further, (and perhaps critically) looking at the combined DPS/EHP plot and the DPS only plot, it would be understandable for readers to be confused – ‘how is it possible that a Golem, even T2 fitted, is apparently comparable to a CNI Raven (E)?’.

The answer is, it absolutely isn’t (as is clear when reading the raw data for those ships/fits). The CNI Raven (E) score’s better than the Golem when combining DPS and EHP because the CNI Raven (E) has a very high EHP and the Golem (A) has a low EHP compared to many other ships, which means it does not have a brilliant benefit score in the combined DPS/EHP plot.

In terms of DPS alone, the second plot shows the Golem ahead to the CNI Raven (E), but only marginally. This (like the DPS/EHP combined plot) is because of the linear scoring approach and lack of weighting of scores. The Golem (A) actually has 84% more DPS than a CNI Raven (E) – there is just no sense of this in the plot as the scores are not weighted.

This is where weighting of the scores becomes important rather than a simple (crude) linear score – but I have not had the time/inclination to do this as the conclusions below move much further beyond ‘just DPS’ (or EHP or the combination thereof).

Contextual Assessment

While it is possible to conduct this analysis purely on the basis of the two cost/benefit plots, it does not provide context, and context is critical when assessing what ship to purchase. Therefore, is worth exploring the following in turn: Difficulty of L4 missions, time to complete L4 missions, SP/ISK availability of pilots, and the risk of ganking.

Difficulty of L4 missions: One of the most obvious aspects of the two plots above are the fact that all of the Drake variants are red. This is for a simple reason: The drakes (especially ‘E’ fitted drakes) score well on EHP, - but they have no ‘tank’. The battleship variants all fit some form of shield booster to enable them to recover their shield by (temporarily, as they would not be cap stable) by pulsing their shield booster. This gives the battleships a higher probability of being able to stay in a L4 mission until completion than any of the Drake fits, which may not be able to stay in a L4 mission area solo without risking the loss of the ship. Drakes warping away will save the ship, but has a negative impact on the likely ISK/hour ratio.

Time to complete L4 missions: There are several factors that must be taken into account when considering time to complete the mission;

  • Travel time (including align times, warp speeds etc).

  • Range vs speed (a ship with high range can snipe the whole mission area, whereas a low ranged ship, even with an afterburner must move around the site to get into range, which costs time).

  • Missile type and effectiveness vs target type.

Considering these elements, even the HM drakes lack significant range vs their albeit slower battleship counterparts, forcing them to spend time moving around L4 sites whilst not always firing back (whilst being shot at, without a shield booster). This costs time, impacting the likely ISK/hour ratio, especially if the drake warps away. So while the HAM drakes in particular appear to have high DPS and drakes in general have a good combined DPS/EHP score, the odds are that these will not be realised in the mission area and will negatively impact the ISK/hour ratio. However, there is equally a negative impact of using large (Cruise) missile vs smaller/faster targets at range, which is what battleship pilots use drones or to help with.

ISK availability / SP for new pilots: Not all pilots have L5 characters and the ISK to perfectly fit their ships (for Golem’s in particular). Equally, some may just not wish to spend large amounts of ISK on a ship based on fear of losing more than they can afford. In this case, the ‘A’ fitted drakes and Ravens are likely going to be the best choice for a pilot in either of these situations as the impact of ISK/hour becomes a mooted point as they have no better choice. Equally, if running L3 solo or running L4’s as part of a fleet then the ‘A’ fitted drakes and ravens become a very appealing choice for lower SP/ISK pilots, irrespective of ISK/hour ratios.

Ganking: Whilst returning to the game its comforting to see the constant debates about the merits of ganking have not gone away. I will not bore anyone with my views here, but certainly this means ganking has to be considered contextually against this assessment. Marauders are a recognised target for ganking, based purely on hull value alone (regardless of fit). Pilots must therefore consider the risk/reward of any expensive ship in this assessment. Even the ‘A’ fit of the Golem is a target for ganking, let alone the hideously expensive Golem ‘E’ fit. Are faction ships considered to be a likely target for ganking (regardless of fit)? My only observation here is this: If you are operating near known ganking corps/pilots or your own risk/reward assessment deems the risk to high and the cost impact to great, then Golem’s and ‘E’ fits are simply not an option for you. Given the limited additional cost, CNI ships might be worth the limited extra cost (relative to ‘E’ fits or Golem ‘A’) and may make such ‘A’ fitted ships a more attractive option, even at the impact of ISK/hour. This assumes that CNI ships are not (like the Golem) a default target for gankers.

CONCLUSION: WHAT MISSILE SHIP IS ‘BEST’ FOR L4 MISSION RUNNING?

Let me start by clearly stating this: This assessment is not intended to tell you what ship to buy (or how to fit it), but hopefully it will help you make your own decision based on the information presented above and below.

This assessment has mostly focused on the cost/benefit and covered the risk/reward of certain ship and fitting options. It does not specifically try to tell people how to optimally fit or ‘meta’ their ships (although I hope the fits below are not completely useless and help pilots with their fitting choices).

To that end and based on the information shown and discussed above, I would say this:

  1. Don’t purchase a Golem with a bling/expensive fit. Yes, they will likely have the highest ISK/hour ratio. But is the extra is the extra 8.5% DPS over a Golem (A) fit really worth the extra ISK? Also, do you actually need the extra 57% EHP or does the Golem (A) already fare quite well in L4 missions? Finally, is it really worth it long term? At c.6bn a pop, it would take at least 60 hours at 100m ISK/hour (ignoring ammo and drone losses etc) to provide a return on this ship fit. If you are confident that you can keep the ship alive for AT LEAST 120 hours of in mission time (60h to pay for ship 1, 60h to pay for a replacement) despite the probability of being a high target for gankers and/or you have ISK in carnal abandon then yes, go nuts – otherwise, avoid because its probably not worth the hassle.

  2. Golem ‘A’ fits are undisputedly the king of L4 (at least, in terms of Caldari missile ships). But they have an automatic ‘gank me’ bullseye painted on them, regardless of a bling or basic fit. Only you can assess your risk/reward level but at 1.6bn ISK, providing you are careful then it seems like the best L4 mission runner.

  3. There appears to be limited value in purchasing ‘elite’ fits for Raven/Drake variants in order to secure higher DPS. The benefits (while real) are only marginal compared to a ‘standard’ (T2) fit but the costs are excessive for the benefit. But they cost double a much superior Golem ‘A’, and while they might not automatically inspire gankers like a Marauder, at those prices they are likely to attract attention. Again, if you can keep your ship alive for c.60 hours of mission running time (30h to pay for ship 1, 30h to pay for a replacement) then (again), go nuts if you want to. But, like the Golem ‘E’, you throwing money at a law of diminishing return, trying to squeeze c.10% extra benefit out of the fit at huge cost - and there are arguably better options at cheaper prices.

  4. ‘E’ fits do provide better DPS/EHP benefit relative to their ‘A’ consorts, but, this could be a false economy. Noting the remarks about ‘E’ fits vs DPS and the Golem (E) specifically above, the other item to consider is just how much EHP you need to stay alive in a L4. If experience shows that either your skills or your fit just can’t handle soloing a L4 yet, then adding the ‘bling’ might help you stay in the L4 to completion. But it is only in this niche (and likely temporary) positions that ‘E’ fits really stand out as worthwhile. Either you need the extra EHP/DPS combo to stay alive long enough to not warp away (improving ISK/hour), or you need to add ‘elements of bling’ just to get your fit over the line for Cap/CPU or whatever. Otherwise, I would avoid as the increased costs may make you a target for gankers. But if you are not concerned by gankers and have the isk, there is no specific reason not to purchase ‘E’ fits and it will have an (albeit modest) impact on your ISK/hour ratio.

  5. ‘A’ fits, especially on standard Ravens are a really cost effective solution. ISK/hour will suffer, especially when compared to a Golem ‘A’ fit, but if you are new to game, lack SP or are concerned by gankers, this is almost certainly the right choice for you, at the cost of ISK/hour.

  6. Drakes (and I suspect/guess Tengu’s) are not viable for L4 missions. Drakes likely lack the staying power to stay alive long enough (solo) without warping out. Further, drakes (and probably tengu’s) lack the range/speed to be really effective in a L4 in the way a battleship hull can. All told, even an ‘E’ fit CNI Drake (and maybe even a Tengu) is likely to not make the ISK/hour of a well fitted ‘A’ fit Raven. This issue is then compounded by being extremely expensive, which raises questions about risk/reward, especially when considering gankers.

Final words:

What would I pick? Probably a CNI Raven or a Raven with an ‘A’ fit (depending on how my shields held, whatever was cheapest). If I am feeling bold/flushed with ISK, I would take a Golem with an ‘A’ fit.

The Golem is undoubtedly the king of DPS and certainly has the staying power to solo a L4, and in my mind is worth the 1.6bn price tag and risk of gankers. But if I was operating near gankers, feeling scared or low on ISK I would take whatever Raven had the shields to handle a L4 solo in one go - with an ‘A’ fit for best risk/reward combined with cost/benefit.

I might be inclined to splurge on the Golem ‘A’ fit for faction mods that improve DPS (specifically) to draw a (not discussed above) compromise between a bling fit and a higher DPS fit. I don’t think the Golem in bastion mode needs more EHP/tank than the fit suggested. But in terms of ISK/hour a pilot could focus ISK here, for the c.150 DPS bump. It probably does not increase the risk being ganked (you are in a Marauder and already a target) but it will have an (albeit modest) ISK/hour benefit for only (comparably) modest additional investment (c.0.5-1.25bn ISK extra?).

Note: When I say the Golem ‘A’ fit doesn’t need more tank, this is true right until the point you are ganked, where tank (might) be what keeps you alive – but odds are on if the gankers know their stuff, you are going home in your pod (at best) either way.

In the case of a CNI Raven ‘A’/’E’ hybrid, you might just stay out of the notice of gankers, keeping your risk level low(er) and reaping the (more limited) benefits of c.77 DPS more. But I would not go down this route personally.

If I am going to break my own rule and ‘cheat’ with an ‘A’/’E’ hybrid with faction mods only for DPS, then it does bring the standard Raven back into play as an option that will likely (hopefully?) be ignored by all but the most determined/bored gankers? This may be a good risk/benefit compromise (more so than the CNI Raven) for those not wanting the hassle of a Golem with an extra 77 DPS and still likely cheaper than a Golem ‘A’ fit. But I would only do this if the Raven ‘A’ fit shields held against the L4 missions - I would not go down the route of then adding better faction shields etc and you are back in ‘Raven (E)’ fit territory - which is not worth it.

I am sorry this has been such a long post – really interested to hear your views.

6 Likes

Held to post ship fits later

Whatever you like flying.

1 Like

That as well of course :grinning:

When I am not using either a Tengu, Nighthawk or Navy Drake there is one go to ship that pretty never gets talked about and that is the Eos.

An Eos properly fitted can deliver as much DPS as a Domi and do it at 100+ out. Drop into a pocket, MJD out to 100, drop sentry’s and let them do work. It can be set up to tank pretty much any L4 room at close range, and you can add a remote reaper to it to keep sentry’s up when dps shifts to them.

2 Likes

It’s just not a missile ship. -_-

1 Like

Since you also somewhere in the intro mentioned ‘flying with friends’:

If you have that option, pick the ships with the best dps and application potential on their bonuses alone and fit them for maximum damage with 2 or 3 resist mods. No need for active tank or capacitor or anything the likes, because one of your friends can simply add a T1 Logistics cruiser that will easily sigtank the rooms and hand out Reps & Energy. That also turns pretty much any Battleship into a shield Battleship, including but not limited to: Vindicator, Navy Geddon, Bhaalgorn, Typhoon Fleet Issue, Nestor, Leshak, Navy Apoc, Navy Mega etc. etc., but also opens up stuff like Talos, Naga and probably even an Oracle.

Besides that: Any T1 Battleship has a bad Cost to Performance Ratio, because the Navy Variants are only marignally more expensive these days. Pirate Battleships, however, also have a bad Cost to Performance Ratio, because every single one of them is as expensive as a Marauder. And Marauders are not the easy ganking targets you’d expect, as they can - if player is present - jump into Bastion and start tanking immediately.

1 Like

TLDR

Fly a Armageddon

Super versatile and POWERFUL
Missiles/Lasers/Drones
shield/armor tank (notably shield tank don’t work well against EM/THERM enemies on ship layout, but it’s a option)

Kill and salavge your missiles in one ship :smiley: (only a marauder would do better IMO)

and best part

your flying amarr!!!

1 Like

This is Typhoon erasure

2 Likes

The Barghest is quite fearsome. With fast heavy launchers and an MWD you own everything at medium range and with cruise missiles you have crazy range, esp. if you add a guidance enhancer.

I’m partial to the Paladin myself. But Armagheddon is decent in it’s own right.

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Tengus are quite viable for L4 missions. I’ve ran L4 missions in both HAM and HM Tengus. And you don’t need much bling.

Lots of analysis there, but I think spending so much time on a straight DPS/EHP analysis muddies things more than it clarifies them. One thing I’ll disagree with you on… the Drake Navy is plenty capable of completing all L4 missions solo without warping out. It takes a bit of piloting at times, but the capability is there… at least with the Heavy Missile fit. That is the ship I started L4 missions with. (Honestly I started them with a Caracal Navy Issue, but that’s a different discussion)

From there I went to the Heavy missile Raven, and found it wasn’t much of an improvement over the Drake. It’s greater sig radius means it absorbs more damage, so the extra EHP wasn’t very useful. It’s capable of doing more damage, but it doesn’t hit small ships well. Next I trained into Cruise Missiles and while the range made things much safer, it was really no faster. I’ll skip over my foray into drones, the Armageddon (a wonderful bridge from missiles into Sentry drones) and the Dominix.

For me, the best T1 missile boat for L4 missions was the Typhoon. By then I had good cruise missile skills, and I found the difference in application between the Raven and Typhoon was a real eye opener. Typhoon doesn’t have the range of Raven, but it does apply better to small ships, especially when equipped with a target painter. It also has a much larger compliment of drones, allowing you to use your missiles on larger targets, cruiser and up, while taking out smaller ships with your drones. Careful use of the MJD allows you to hop to your most advantageous range or quickly get yourself out of trouble, or for missions with lots of frigate and destroyer rats you can drop the AB, add another target painter and split your launchers to focus two targets at once.

[Typhoon, Haiyan Cruise]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Corelum C-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer

Large Micro Jump Drive
Missile Guidance Computer II
Sensor Booster II
Target Painter II
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Small Tractor Beam II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Acolyte II x5
Infiltrator II x5

Missile Precision Script x1
Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile x2346

Sometimes I refit it with torpedoes and run it brawly just for fun, but that sometimes does require a warpout to repair and recharge.

If you want the best missile ship for ISK making? That’s easy… Garmur. Skill up into that and run the level 4 team burner missions.

[Garmur, Smokey Joe]
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Coreli A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive
Target Painter II
Missile Guidance Computer II
Missile Guidance Computer II

Polarized Rocket Launcher
Polarized Rocket Launcher
Polarized Rocket Launcher

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Mjolnir Rage Rocket x3887
Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket x3014
Missile Range Script x1
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket x2331
Nova Rage Rocket x2578
Inferno Rage Rocket x2204
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x1808
Mjolnir Javelin Rocket x2327

I would also be careful making too much of an issue about ISK/hr. It’s certainly a valid way to approach missions, but also a good way to turn what should be a fun activity into a job and burn out. I would say two things to the average aspiring security mission runner. First, have fun along the way. There are better ways to make ISK, so just do what’s fun. Second, if ISK/hr IS really your ultimate goal, don’t waste time with missile ships (Garmur excepted). Get into the Kronos or Vargur and learn how to use them. They are SO much faster than any missile ship it’s not even close. That may be true of the Paladin as well, but for the most part I avoid that Amarr crap :grin:

3 Likes

And what about HACs? They can do around 750-800 DPS without implants or boosters, have nice agility, T2 resist profile and cost around 250-300kk fitted. You will travel much faster than a battleship and you will be much worse ganking target in high sec due to ADC.
I’m thinking about HAML Cerb myself right now. Numbers look really good and I maybe will even be able to drop some tank for better application.

HACs can do L4s, they just lack damage-projection. Their DPS is only very high with short-range weaponry, so they need to fly more than they can shoot, especially in missions where different spawns are 100km away from each other. And with LongRange Weapon Systems (HMs, BeamLasers…) their damage is not even half that of a decently skilled Battleship. They have it easier in tank, thats true, because they can evade most damage with just an Afterburner and do not need that much rep to survive. Doesn’t change the fact that they generate a LOT less ISK/hour.

Primarily, Heavy Assault Cruisers (and Heavy Interdiction Cruisers) have lower capacitor recharge times then Battleships, enabling them to be fit with fancy tank mods and capable of permanently running them without drying their capacitor out

[Cerberus, Cheap]

Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Y - S8 Compact Afterburner
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
X-Large Shield Booster II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

comes at 280M isk at the current rates, has 530ehp/s permatank and 390~670 dps when it’s in range, where at 640m/s it’s rather slow to move into though. That’s comparable damage to a tank-oriented Rapid Heavy Missile Raven design, half the Raven’s Price, and twice the Raven’s Tank.

I’m not saying it’s a good missioning fit, but it’ll do any LVL4 regular for sure. If it was me, I’d use fancier modules though, and for the Raven, I’d ditch it and take a Golem instead <.<

Nicely blinged, a Cerb will be significantly tankier - and faster - then the kitchensink Cerb, but it’s bottleneck compared to a Golem never was tank or movement speed to begin with, but long range damage, resulting in the Cerb being slower then a Golem in most combat-oriented missions, same as fast in some others, faster in travel oriented missions … and being able to enter a very specific mission that the Golem can’t, namely Anomic Bases.

Seemingly a detail, each Anomic Base mission rewards significantly more LP than any mission a marauder could attempt running at the same time, so the real question about HAC vs Marauder missioning efficiency is how frequent you get Anomic Base missions offered.

HAM tengu, High grade hydras, 1200 DPS with 56KM range, 1400 speed, your opinion on the Tengu is as outdated as you are.

I’d like to see a fit for that if you don’t mind. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Sorry for late reply, was at work

[Tengu, pve]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Gistum B-Type 50MN Microwarpdrive
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Auto Targeting System I

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Tengu Core - Augmented Graviton Reactor
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

High-grade Hydra Alpha
High-grade Hydra Beta
High-grade Hydra Gamma
High-grade Hydra Delta
High-grade Hydra Epsilon
High-grade Hydra Omega
Zainou ‘Snapshot’ Heavy Assault Missiles AM-705
Zainou ‘Deadeye’ Guided Missile Precision GP-805
Zainou ‘Deadeye’ Target Navigation Prediction TN-905
Zainou ‘Deadeye’ Rapid Launch RL-1005

Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile x20000
Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x4000
Missile Precision Script x1

For any EM tanking mission like Smash the Supplier, swap hardners for two EM ones and MWD for an regular ass T2 AB and ur good. Or bling it out with complex hardners. Pod costs more than most peoples marauders, but the ship is quite cheap, slippery, fast, blitz machine. The moment the Hydra implants were announced with HAM buff, i just knew, this would work. And oh yes it does!

Just sayin, TS has no clue what he is talking about. He does maths, he doesnt play the game. Tengus can outpace marauders for mission running non full clears. Tengu is a wonderful ship, always has been and always will be, its viable for anything as long as you have the imagination.

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Ok, thank you.

I am flying HG-Hydra-HAM ships as well (but in T5/T6 Abyssals) and I have run missions (blitzing and full clear) for years in many different ships, so I know quite a bit about that as well.

First: For mission blitzing I can imagine it working pretty well, no doubt. Aligntime and WarpSpeed is better than that of a Marauder, so you will safe quite some travel time. Speed, Range and Damage also seem to be enough to quickly take out the key targets and leave, so indeed it might be better for the job than a Marauder or Faction BS.

Second, it’s pretty expensive even compared to a Marauder (a T2 fitted Golem does cost like 1.4b and offers like 50M possible loot for gankers, While having more than a 100k buffer which requires at least 5-6 people to bring it down ^^) and while it might perform worse when purely blitzing a mission, it will perform better on full-clears for sure, especially when many spawns are like 100km away. So, while a HAM-Tengu performs really really good for sure, I am not sure if I would give it the title of “best ship to run L4s solo” (overall).

[Sidenote: Application might not be an issue in L4s, due to the lack of speed, tank and RRof the NPCs in there, I’d just like to add that the “1200 DPS over 56km” are a bit of an illusion. You will lose damage against non-webbed targets (especially elite cruisers and elite frigs) all the time, in L4 you just won’t notice it because they are so weak that they die anyway. But don’t try such a setup in the Abyss for example, HG-Hydra-HAM-Cerbs face death-rooms even with a 1000 DPS on paper because HAMs don’t apply full damage any more, even with a Crash Drug. Thats why you will need a Web even when using HG-Hydra HAMs in there. Or even DualWeb when using HAMs without a HG-Hydra Set.]