You affirmed something and I explained you why it was false.
Instead of giving a counter argument, you repeat the same thing again and again.
Well it’s still false.
Since you can’t understand this, you failed at reading what I wrote.
BTW
Nope. They could allow neutral and choose that this would be fair. It’s just a choice of what is and what is not balanced in the end.
CCP chose that neutral RR was bad for balance, but they COULD as well have decided that this was not a problem.
If there was such an absolute way to find “good rules” and “bad rules” , we would not have the patches for balance.
What is your problem with Scanners? In plain and simple words? What about them compares to anything else that gives you a Flag in the game currently?
And while you’re pondering your reply, be sure that your reply involves the Scanners themselves, and not the fact that someone wants to scan you in order to gank you. Because then your concern isn’t being scanned, but being ganked afterwards.
So what part of just being scanned, offends you? What part of someone waving a scanner in your direction, and then moving on with life oblivious of your presence, worries you? Why should someone who scans you, and then walks away, be Flagged for doing so?
And BTW…
Nobody would agree with your reasoning. If a duel is a Concord sanctioned battle between two competitors, NOBODY would agree that one side receiving external support and healing is fair unless both sides were allowed. And if you’re talking about sanctioned battles between groups, that’s called a Wardec.
So no, it’s not just an arbitrary decision that could be altered or rescinded later on. It’s common sense. Repping duelists goes against the Concord agreement, which is why you get Flagged for interference.
Repeating what is incorrect does not magically make it correct. It merely shows you signed up for the bandwagon.
I have no problem with scanners. I feel they are a necessary part of the game. The mechanics of which are not actually taken into consideration for crimewatch. Crimewatch is arbitrary. It is why when someone deploys a Enormous Freight Container for use as a very oversized jetcan anyone who goes up to it and loots from it gets a suspect flag but a freighter picking it up is perfectly fine and dandy. It is why when a ganker kills someone they are rewarded with the ability to have an alt swoop in and scoop the loot without a single flag. It is why Neutral Logi have a tiny window of 15 minutes before they’re both free scouts AND support for any war.
I am for making arbitrary go away and replacing it with rational reasoning.
No offense Art, but my question was aimed more at @Anderson_Geten b/c they’re the one throwing a fit over Flagging scanners. You, on the other hand, just like to flex those Debate muscles you haven’t used since High School. =)
I’m unfamiliar with the results of a 3rd party scooping an entire Freight container drifting in space. I would have assumed it Flagged the thief, just as it would for taking the contents and leaving the container in place.
Last I checked, if Ganker A shoots Target B and swoops in with Hauler C, the Hauler will still get a Flag if they steal from the Target’s wreckage. The only “legal” wreck to salvage is the Ganker’s b/c they went Criminal when they pulled the trigger.
But yes, I agree that if there are any arbitrary rules for Flagging, they should be ironed out and made concrete, with reasoning behind them. However, I don’t think there is any reasoning to support labeling a HARMLESS Scanner as an aggressive module.
Scanners are aggressive from simply a Lore point of view,
You a capsuleer are more of an independent than a true citizen of anywhere.
You are not part of a legal authority of any kind in the game except to yourself.
Being as such, what legal right do you have to conduct unauthorized searches?
None, so that being said your scanning me is an illegal act and there fore i consider it Hostile since you are not part of any Empire navy, nor Concord.
in most cases…
Activating a module does nothing for Corps with legal fire allowed.
Does nothing for fleet mates, again a corp at war for example.
And now, yes they do nothing overtly to the Character…but to the player you are wrong, they Affect the “player” and they may feel several effects from being scanned. Before if anything occurs.
You would be wrong because fleet mechanics say the ganker gets killed but the fleet member can collect the wreck of the target they just exploded.
Collecting the entire can is unflagged. Known when I was asked to pick up a freight can and was not in the corp of the person who had the freight can in space. Firsthand knowledge.
Harmless is not the point. A weapons disruption on a freighter (an object with no weapons of any kind) is a harmless effect but still gets a concordoken. The point is not aggressive either as defensive effects of remote reps get a flag as well. The point is logic. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Lets use a simple real world example. Is it logical that anyone should have rights to look inside a freight truck driving down the freeway? You are declaring such acts as “harmless” and as such anyone can go driving down the freeway looking at any trucks contents. The problem? Trailers are not made of plexiglass with contents listed on the exterior for everybody to see. Now tell me how you see inside a truck without using a device while moving at highway speeds.
Until someone presents concrete examples of how a Scanner hurts or hinders their ship, all I’m seeing is a lot of people crying because someone looked at you funny, and you want them to die for it.
This entire thread is a Social Justice Warrior joke. There is nothing factual about why a Scanner should Flag someone. Just a lot of “I’m offended, and anything that offends me should be stopped.”
@Max_Deveron, nobody is performing an “official” search. If they were, you’d be fined for any illegal goods in your possession. But, they are using a focused sensor module to examine the contents and fittings of your ship. If you don’t like it, get a ship that cannot be scanned (such as Blockade Runners). But that scan is not an invasion of your privacy, because you have no privacy in space. There is no “safe spaces” once you undock from the station. High Sec gives the illusion of safety, but that only comes from the guarantee that if someone actively attempts to kill you, your death will be avenged.
Concord are not your space parents. They are not your space bodyguards. They are not your space therapists. They are not here to make you feel better about your life as a space mercenary. They are here to make sure ■■■■ doesn’t get out of hand, by killing anyone who starts trying to rampage on public property.
They are not going to yell at the other kids because they looked at you funny. Grow a pair, or don’t undock.
If that is the case, that the Ganker and the Hauler being fleeted allows the Hauler to swipe the Target’s wreck unhindered, then yes (IMO) that should be fixed. They are not entitled to the wreckage b/c it was a Criminal act to shoot in the first place. When I am King, I shall make sure the Hauler gets Flagged if they loot the wreck. =)
Legally stealing an entire container also sounds like something that should be remedied. If it’s stealing to take the contents, it should be stealing to take the Can.
Scanners are harmless b/c there are no circumstances in which they could inflict harm of any kind. Tracking Disruptors are harmful because they are intended to do “harm” to the target’s weapon systems. Whether or not they have any is irrelevant. The module’s function is to inflict harm, whether it succeeds or not.
If an Interceptor settles into a tight orbit around a Battleship, and the BS fires a volley with their Large guns, that is still an offense. There is very little chance the shot will hit b/c the ship is exponentially exceeding the gun’s tracking, but the module is aggressive and so a crime was committed. There is no crime in scanning.
As to your analogy… If a car drives past a trucker, and takes a picture of his trailer with their cell phone camera, there is no recourse. If they take a picture of the driver inside the cab, there is also no recourse. And if the trucker was pulling an open bed trailer, and they took a picture of the cargo strapped to that trailer, there would still be no recourse. So no… there is no recourse for someone scanning your ship. Because they did not do anything TO you.
This is where you have missed the point. Harm is not the point. Success or failure is not the point. Logic is the point. Do you have any relevant logical points to make in which every single truck on the highway is free to be looked inside by every Tom, Dick, and Harry? Yes or no.
Enclosed trailers are not enclosed for privacy. They are enclosed to keep the contents from spilling out. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is capable of taking pictures of the horse inside your horse trailer, without repercussions. Every TD&H is capable of taking photos of the motorcycles or snowmobiles you’re pulling behind your pickup, without repercussions. The ability to see your fittings and cargo is not special. I can look at the hull of your ship and tell what guns or launchers you have fit, and watch the effects to tell what kind of tank you’re using. Your ship is not a privacy bubble, it’s merely a container for your gear. This false expectation of privacy is the root of this whole debate. If you want privacy, stay docked.
This is a lie. UPS, FedEX, and DHL trucks DO NOT CONTAIN WINDOWS for the truck beds because information seen by passive scanners (eyeballs) will tell thieves if a truck is worth hitting or not. An armored car does not have windows that you can passively look inside thru. It is specifically to prevent such actions of being looked at and determined as a valid target or a worthless target.
This is where you have discarded privacy of the contents of a truck. We don’t advertise that we are carrying diamonds, automotive parts, or big screen tv’s on any trucks on the planet. But somehow if we are in space it’s fair game. This is a leap of logic which doesn’t follow standard reason.
And this is where you’re attempting to apply the “police state” to a relatively ungoverned space-faring populace.
As I said above, Concord are not your space parents. They are not your space nanny. They are hired by the various governments (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar) to “keep the peace” as per the Wild West definition of the phrase. If one guy punches another, then you have the right to punch him back. If too many people start punching each other, Concord steps in and gives everyone within arm’s reach a black eye.
But they aren’t going to go around handing out bouquets of daisies and asking everyone to love each other and hold hands. And they don’t care if someone was looking at your possessions, so long as they didn’t steal anything.
Sorry if you were unaware. The 4 Nations do not Flag people. They have no influence over the Crimewatch system.
You ever notice when someone with a -10 Caldari rating flies through Jita… Concord doesn’t give a hairy rat’s ass. Sure, some Caldari Navy boats will pop up after a minute. But the “perp” just flies right on by b/c those Navy boats are a joke.
But you see someone with a -10 Sec Status come through the Gate, and they’re immediately blinking Red for all to see (and shoot).
Concord is the real authority in space. And they only exercise that authority enough to “keep the peace”. Not to bring you a warm blanket and a glass of milk. =)
They also do not declare what is and is not legal. Merely punishable.
So while stealing is illegal they do not actively punish it. This would make your statement that Concord is the real authority in space a logical fallacy. They are not an authority any greater than the fact that they are an obscenely overpowered ship user. They do not determine you are in need of death for your crimes against the high security space. They do not determine if you are the most happy person in the world and offer you greater protection.
And then… You haven’t said anything to refute my claim. All you’ve done (as I pointed out earlier) is exercise your Speech and Debate skills, by talking a lot. =)
Concord isn’t going to punish someone for looking at your stuff, plain and simple. It’s not even remotely in the scope of what they do. They are here to kill the killers to prove that killing is wrong.
There is nothing harmful or aggressive about scanning another ship. The harmful aggression comes after you realize they’ve got good stuff, and you shoot them full of holes to get at it. And shooting… is a crime.
Like I said before. Show me a reason why Scanners should be criminal. And do not tie them in any way, to shooting someone after scanning them. Because then you’re really just complaining about the shooting, not the scanning.
I’m not asking them to. I am asking them to call it suspect. They already don’t attack people who are suspect. This is a change of the target from suspect to criminal flag. Strawman argument.
False: They do not kill them. Merely unship them in the most explosive way possible as it is also the quickest. Pods are left alive.
There is no argument on harm or aggressiveness of the situation. Merely suspicious activity.
That’s switching the topic again. Read it twice before you reply
