Ship/Cargo Scanner to give penalty e.g. suspect timer

By analogy with the tracking disruptor, you have to distinguish when using it on rats is legal, and using on players/stations is illegal.
That does not make it an issue ?

Crimewatch deals specifically with player to player interaction.

Player to NPC interactions being treated as equivalent is impractical either way I might choose to implement it. Either we never flag anyone for attacking a player at all, because we do not flag them for attacking NPCs, or we flag every player for attacking NPC ships because we flag them when we attack a player.

In the event that being consistent introduces a massive problem of this nature, it is preferable to allow the inconsistency or added complexity. I do not think of cargo scanners as a massive problem, however, but rather as a healthy part of game balance.

Let’s compare Apples with Apples, to guess what an orange is. (bait title)

I agree with your interpretation of said facts, and you raise good points about cans that I have covered (somewhere 0_o ) except for one thing the “flotsum” are unpiloted.

If you reconsider that a piloted craft has diffrent rights, then your argument interesting but not complete.

I do not think a piloted ship has the same rights as a can or wrec, which you can peer into. Here comes a trues story.

A long long time ago a new than noob capsuleer exciting undocked in a tristan. Lets call him Ryan B Thiesant. He had just bought a tristan and fitted, finally.

In the sytem he saw a cooler ship (caldari rookie ship lol), just floating in space. And when he hovered his curser over it he could see an icon of little man with an arrow on his head.

He figure out how to get out of his ship and into the new ship. He flew it back to base. Ryan had fallen for a scam, maybe, or stole an after gank ship.
end of story.

CPP makes a big distinction between piloted ships and non piloted ships. Did you notice I did not get a suspect timer for stealling a ship in space? In fact a can has more rights than an unpiloted ship!

So back to the redefinition: Anything that penetrates or “moves through” the piloted ship of another capsuleer without permission, and that can not be readily seen, should recieve a supect time.

A piloted craft is their sanctum proted by . If a craft is un piloted craft is in space

The idea of ownership is pretty intrinsic to an item you can be flagged for stealing from, and if one can make a case that ‘looking into my ship’ should be illegal, then one can, and someday will, make the case that ‘looking into my jetcan should be illegal’.

Natural law can be disputed with facts, but crime watch is more akin to criminal justice in that these laws arise from the judgement of a human being or group of human beings. This relies on the experience, values, and reasoning of those people to decide where the lines of law are drawn.

I do not maintain that your judgement, values, or reasoning contain some fundamental flaw that would make any of them objectively wrong. What I believe is that this will not address the proposed problem, and that in the future we will see another thread which uses the reasoning ‘you can’t scan my ship, so you should not be able to scan my cans without going suspect’, and that it will be iterated on indefinitely until someone says ‘no’.

When I consider those participating in the discussion, there aren’t any who seem excited to hunt scouts. What I think I see are people who hope that someone else will hunt scouts so they don’t have to deal with problems that arise from overloading a freighter. I’m skeptical that a significant portion of the player base would take time to exploit this change, even if the scouts can’t escape. I am also skeptical that seeing such inexpensive killmails would generate much in the way of satisfaction or excitement to continue the trend in the event such a trend were to start.

I will not say you are wrong, or that your argument doesn’t make sense. Our reasoning, experience, values, and judgement lead us to different conclusions.

Ever been to a trade hub and see someone go suspect? In your experience how long do they last? In my experience they don’t last more than 10 seconds.

I have reason to disagree with this that is very simple. Using a cargo scanner will make you suspect. Not using one will not. I will include using it on objects in space which are NOT owned by players. Thus people using cargo scanners on relic sites to find the best loot will go suspect.

the consistency or inconsistency of things is this:

1 action does not require an active module(ie, opening/looking into a jette container)

1 action requires the a player to actively activate a module.

Now activating a module on another player in most cases results in suspect or criminal flagging.
Cargo and Ship scanners are exempt from this because…why?

I still support the idea of them causing a suspect flag, and yeah that goes for explorers scanning cans in a site to cherry pick as well.

Because they do not have any effect on the target.

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Highlighted the flaw in your logic. “In most cases”, because most cases involve activating an aggressive, harmful module against another player. Shooting them is harmful, scrambling them is harmful, tracking disruption is harmful (even if they don’t have turrets, the module itself is the aggressor).

Remote reps do not harm the other player. And they don’t cause you to Flag unless the target was already Flagged for something else.

Scanners do not affect the target player in any way. They do not feel any effects of being scanned.

What they do feel the effects of, is being shot at afterwards. And guns… already cause Flags.

Wrong. you get a suspect if you rep someone in a duel, wether or not he had a flag.

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Timers#Limited_Engagement_Timer

Duels are a form of Flag, just between the two combatants.

yes, but in your quote he says “suspect or criminal flag”, thus we were talking about getting suspect|criminal flag.

The point is, that suspect can appear even when using non-aggressive modules on non suspect|criminal ppl.

Other than that,

They don’t even feel the effect it someone takes items from a can they did not have opened before. especially if they already left the battle field and completed the mission.

If a cargo scanner had no effect on a target why use it?

Repping a couple of duelists causes a Flag b/c you’re interfering with a Concord sanctioned fight.

Harmlessly scanning a ship’s cargo or fit is HARMLESS. Stop pretending you are offended by being scanned, and admit that you are offended by being shot. And then admit that shooting causes a Flag, and stop beating this dead horse.

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No. This gives suspect flag because balance. That’s an arbitrary choice of what is balanced or not, CCP could as well allow neutral alts to rep without getting flagged.

Stop pretending I am pretending. Looting cans does not harm the player, yet it does give suspect, so your argument of “doing harm” is invalid.

Dead horse? Lol I think I posted this idea a couple weeks ago or something and it’s almost at 400 replies. Also if this becomes real I’m gonna lmfao

No, they couldn’t allow neutral reps b/c then the fight would not be fair. They flag anyone attempting to interfere in the duel b/c that’s cheating.

Stealing from someone’s container is a crime, and hence the Flag for theft.

Scanning someone’s fit or cargo is HARMLESS…

HARMLESS…

HARMLESS…

So we are to the point where you can’t read what I wrote properly and will just repeat the same nonse. Okay, that was fast, bye.

Clearly I read what you wrote, b/c I quoted it back to you.

Stealing is a crime, and so you get Flagged.

Shooting people is a crime, and so you get Flagged.

Scanning people is not a crime, and so you do not get Flagged.

It was true the first time he said it…

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