Apparent issue with criminal mechanics


(Knevah) #1

Hi, This is my first post here, so I’m sure someone will tell me if I’m pushing a point that has been done to death, but here goes.

I noticed that if I kill someone in highsec who is KOS, (below -5 security status etc) then I have no penalty for doing so… and indeed if someone helps me do so, by also shooting, they get no penalty either… but if someone helps me by using logistics, or remote boosters of any kind, then they get a suspect flag. This is clearly broken…

On further investigation, I discover that any logistics/boosting on anyone who has a logoff timer for interaction with a player will be so flagged… this seems wholly unfair, that logoff timer is to stop someone from logging off so that they cannot be scanned etc… I have no issue with the assisting party gaining ALL the flags that the assisted party has… whether that be limited engagement, suspect, etc etc… but gaining a worse timer, such as a suspect timer for assisting someone who only has a logout timer seems wholly unreasonable.

How can I gain a suspect timer for assisting someone to perform a legal action.

One of the reasons EVE has remained successful is that it has not “gone soft”, like many other MMO’s… and I’d hate to think this kind of thing is creeping in to EVE too…


(Dyver Phycad) #2

There is a duel between you and the pirate. The person repairing or remote assisting you is interfering with the duel and thus committing a suspect activity.


(Geo Eclipse Oksaras) #3

He didnt say anything about a duel. He said a KOS


(Dyver Phycad) #4

Which is a duel, a limited engagement between you and this pirate, visible from the green crime watch circle.


(Brisc Rubal) #5

Without flagging the logi as suspect, the person you are attacking - the KOS - would not be able to attack the logi without getting CONCORDed, unless I’m misremembering.

I believe the point of this mechanic is to stop neutral logi from being unkillable in war dec situations.


(Marcus Gideon) #6

So wouldn’t it make more sense to initiate a Duel flag between the Logi and the Criminal? That way you don’t have random bystanders suddenly able to attack the Logi?


(Anderson Geten) #7

In the general sense, no :
If you want to not be suspect, just join the war - or don’t interfere in duels between people who made the effort to go at war.
Neutral logis are the cancer of HS. They need to be removed by all means. I would not mind putting them criminals.

ON the other hand, on this particular topic I agree with OP (and thus with you), the limited engagement given by aggressing a KoS should not incur suspect to a logibro.


(Marcus Gideon) #8

I agree, interfering with a Concord sanctioned War or Duel should lead to going Suspect. You weren’t invited to participate, and you’re unfairly assisting one side of the conflict.

But the topic is indeed about people attacking someone who has reduced their Sec Status to the point of being declared a Criminal. So I have no sympathy for their inability to fight back against the Logi who are helping law-abiding citizens / vigilantes to kill them.

If it were me, I wouldn’t flag the Logi at all. But if they want to keep the theme going, it should be another Duel type flag, not a Suspect flag.


(Brisc Rubal) #9

I do. Not being able to kill the logi that is stopping you from killing the guy attacking you, for whatever reason, would be a frustrating mechanic.


(Marcus Gideon) #10

Still, it should be a Limited Engagement flag between the Criminal and the Logi. Not a Suspect flag allowing the whole universe to beat up the Logi for trying to help stop a Criminal.


(Keno Skir) #11

This ^

I agree that this particular use of the suspect flag is stupid. It’s just laziness on someone’s part for not taking specific kinds of fight into account and just using the same rule for them all.


(Scipio Artelius) #12

What about the other way?

The outlaw uses neutral logi.

Are you still of the same opinion, that they should be able to do that just fine without the logi going suspect?


(Duo Roman) #13

If you are engaged with an outlaw and they use a neutral logi, that neutral logi should get an engagement timer with you. If others want to shoot the logi, shoot the outlaw and there you go, you can shoot the logi too.

Edit: Of course, if a logi helps you, this logi should be a valid target to the one you are shooting too, even if you or the logi have a positive sec status.


(Max Deveron) #14

well in this retrospect, considering Concord or Facpo should/might be getting involved, a logi ship repping a GC(-5 or lower) pilot should just get concorded.


(Black Pedro) #15

A logi ship does get CONCORDed if they rep a pilot with a criminal flag.

As for the flags, it probably should be just that inherit the flags of the target they are repping, but the problem, at least as I understand it, there is a technical limitation to make it work that way, so as the compromise solution, neutral logi just go suspect.

There is also the issue that CrimeWatch ignores command boosts completely.

But this is got to be a pretty niche issue. If you are fighting an outlaw, the Faction Police will be there in short order to help. I can’t see it making much of a difference - if you are going to shoot fish in a barrel, you don’t probably need a combat medic on hand, or at least is isn’t very sporting.


(Bjorn Tyrson) #16

I think they actually explained why they do it this way. I think it was a fanfest talk or something?
and really what it comes down to is the potential exponential growth caused by the limited engagements.

pilot a is fighting pilot b logi a comes in and starts repping pilot a and gets a limited engagement with b… okay thats fine, but then what happens if another neutral logi comes along and starts repping logi a, does pilot b get limited engagement with them as well? and since afaik limited engagements also extend to a pilots corp members. it has the potential to quickly spiral out of control.

here is the video, the part starts at around the 16 minute mark.


(Max Deveron) #17

ok then,

On command boosts, i would agree outside of mining boosts, neutral command combat boosts should make you suspect.


(elitatwo) #18

Links give you a weapon timer already. No jumping the gate or docking.


(Lugburz) #19

why use logi? if the person in question can be attacked simply have everyone ship into dps.


(DrysonBennington) #20

Then Bump Tackling is interfering with the ability of the freighter pilot from entering warp without the ganker committing a criminal activity that is normally assigned to those who warp scramble ships in High Sec when not attacking under a war dec.