PVP Logi timer in highsec case

This is what happened, i just dont undersatand why if support ships only inherit the suported ships timer?

ship1 is remote sensor boosting ship2, none of them are criminals or suspect or have any timer.

Ship2 shoots ship3 whom has a suspect timer on.

Isnt ship1 who’s remote sensor boosting ship2 suposed to inherit his timer? like a combat timer?

Instead ship1 gets criminal timer and gets concorded? ship2 is not a criminal for engaging a suspect, why does ship1 get concorded as criminal?

Thanks guys.

Adapted from https://www.eveonline.com/article/pnlesq/war-war-sometimes-changes

If a neutral character applies a remote assistance module (such as a remote repairer) to another character they can receive a suspect flag if their target meets all of the following conditions:

  • is involved in a war (including normal wars or FW)
  • does not share a corp/alliance (or FW side if the war in question is the FW war) with the assistor
  • is engaged in PVP (has a capsuleer logoff timer)

The penalty for direct targeted neutral assistance meeting the conditions above AND occurring within highsec will become a criminal flag and CONCORD response.

Based on the criteria, my question is: was there a war involved? The blog does not specify “inheritance” of timers.

Nope, no war. ship 1+2 are in the same corp and that corp has NO war.

Will that still give criminal to ship1??

Under current mechanics, if a neutral character applies a remote assistance module

bolded the part you left out , you’re quoting the old mechanics … here’s the new bit :

After the April release, the penalty for direct targeted neutral assistance meeting the conditions above AND occurring within highsec will become a criminal flag and CONCORD response. The safety system will prevent the activation of the targeted assistance modules under these conditions, so we suggest that support pilots in highsec engage their safety at either green or yellow levels to prevent unintentional CONCORDOKKEN.

ship1 is interfering in a limited engagement between ship2 and the suspect .

@Buggs_LeRoach I left that out for a reason: the old mechanics still apply outside of HS and are mostly applicable to HS, save for one behavioral component that overrides behavior in HS which I explicitly specified. There was nothing incorrect with what I said.

“the conditions above” are the ones I bulleted.

:point_up_2: This was a summary version of the paragraph you copied and pasted (minus safety system preventing criminal behavior, which is empirically true everywhere, not specific to this)

Ship1 should not have gotten CONCORDed at all based on the criteria above (which says >ALL< the conditions must be satisfied), especially if its safety was green or yellow. Furthermore:

  • If safety is on, neutral logi should automatically deactivate if continuing to logi would get you give you a suspect or criminal timer (depending on whether your safety is set to green or yellow).
  • Ship2 will never be CONCORDed because it is always legal to attack a suspect.
  • If you got CONCORDed without >ALL< of the conditions being satisfied, with your safety NOT red and/or you not performing any other criminal action (such as drones attacking, etc), then you should file a ticket asking for clarification as to why this occurred - there might be details you are not providing us that caused ship1 to get CONCORDed, or this could be a bug for which you should receive reimbursement and for which you should file a report.

Link killboard or report

ok thanks guy i will do so.

Unless it was changed, you can still duel the person and repair without Concord intervention.

Not an exploit that was found intentionally considering I live in Nullsec, I wonder if they fixed it?

well as i mentioned, no war intervention, and ship1 and 2 are insame corp, when ship 2 engaged ship 3, ship3 was suspect to everyone. and yes, ship 1 had drones assigned to ship 2, but still if both are engaging basically a supect why would ship 1, who is remote sensor boosting ship 2 and have drones assigned to him get criminal? both ship 1 and 2 are attacking a suspect that EVERYONE can attack.

That is also a good point. So if ship1 got CONCORDed, it was either due to a bug or due to a relevant detail you did not share. CCP can examine logs and see why it occurred or if it is a bug.

The way you are describing it, it sounds like a bug.

P.S. just because you have drones on assist, it does not mean that your drones will actually attack a target. Sometimes, drones bug out and don’t follow the orders. Are you 100% sure that you had limited engagement timer against the pilot in ship #3? It doesn’t sound like that.

Well at start ship3 was suspect to everyone, ofc after ship 2 shooted the suspect, that timer turned into an engagement timer? the blue one with the swards?, but prior to that, ship 3 was already a suspect to everyone. so i dont understand the difference with blue timer or not? he was engageble by everyone in the first place and continued to be after, with his suspect timer. It is tricky with those timers but still dont make much sence to me ;o)

btw… where do u plant a ticket now a days? not ingame anymore?

F12, Report Bug

Help Center for Ticket

thanks ;o)

1 Like

the answer is a bit further down in the release thread …

The increased penalty for neutral targeted assistance will also apply to limited engagements (such as those caused by duels) but for performance reasons we won’t be preventing command bursts from applying to pilots in limited engagements.

1 Like

when they say… NEUTRAL assistance?? neutral to whom? if ship 3 has a suspect timer and ship 1 and 2 are in same corp? ships 1 assistance to ship 2 still count as neutral assistance?

as well they mention “meeting ALL” og the conditions… in this case i think we dont meet even ONE condition, well, nr 3 we do, but eint they saying “ALL” the conditions?

So @Buggs_LeRoach pointed out something I overlooked in that blog post: if you interfere in a limited engagement, you get CONCORDed. This is an ALTERNATIVE condition to what was described above.

@Labadina to put that into perspective (from https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203268611-Duels-Limited-Engagements):

Limited Engagements are created on attacks towards other pilots that are under a suspect or criminal flag to allow them to defend themselves but can also be gained from accepting a Duel Request.

Since ship3 was a suspect/criminal, a limited engagement formed between him and ship2 - hence interfering would be a CONCORDable offense.

So now that we know that you will, in fact, be CONCORDed during limited engagements per that blog post, we can safely conclude one of two things happened:

  • Ship1 had his safety on red, so he was able to rep ship2 during the limited engagement, and this led him to being CONCORDed
  • Ship1 had his safety on green/yellow, so he should NOT have been able to rep ship2, but due to a bug he was able to and he got CONCORDed - this would have to be reported as a bug and a reimbursement request would need to be filed.

This is unlikely a bug, so he probably had his safety on red, which is Hisec is almost always bad idea unless you’re trying to suicide gank someone (if you’re logi, you’re not exactly trying to suicide gank anyone).

Thanks for the reply ;o) yup ship 1 had safety to red… ok in other words, in high sec u can never have ANY support basically, if u for instance are hunting pirates, that will activate an engagement timer no matter if they are suspect or criminal not allowing anyone to give you support. Nice way to prevent anyone to try to fight crime efficiently in high sec. ok… what about gateguns in lowsec? will they activate?