Dear Pilots,
please help me with this question, as I did read contradictious answers during my research:
While in HighSec:
If I activate a repping module on my buddy, who is engaged in a limited engagement, do I get suspect or criminal status?
Or are there some other factors that can further alter this?
o7, Bruno
Stop trying to interfere in an honourable battle between your friend and their opponent. CONCORD takes a matter of honour like this very seriously.
You are finding conflicting information because it wasn’t always this way. Here is the devblog describing the change:
You cannot interfere in any way. If you are both in the same corp and fighting a war target in highsec you could rep them as there is no limited engagement flag generated. But limited engagements are now limited so you aren’t suppose to influence the fight.
Thank you for the clarification and the link to the devblog! It was discussed within my Corp and I wanted to be sure.
The case would be as following f.i.:
Pilot1 has taken a limited engagement with Pilot2, who is suspect-flagged.
Pilot3 enters the scene. Which option does he have? He is thus not allowed to interfere with the LE of P1+P2, but can engage with Pilot2, as this one’s suspect, right?
Yeah. He (Pilot3) can engage the suspect and create his own limited engagement timer. Even though it might make sense in that situation to be able to rep your buddy, you actually can’t.
But you both can shoot the suspect and call for even more friends to join you. You could also use electronic warfare or any other hostile modules to influence the fight. Just remote reps and boosts are not allowed.
You will not get a criminal red flashy. To be extra sure, set your safety to yellow and target and rep who you wish. The worst that can happen with your safety to yellow is a suspect yellow flashy or nothing happens.
If you don’t want to risk even a suspect yellow flashy set your safety to green. Now target and rep who you wish. Again it either works or nothing happens.
I was surprised to come back to EVE and find you could rep someone not in your fleet and not get a suspect yellow flashy anymore.
How that works with limited engagements I don’t know, and with CCP, I don’t trust what I read. I need to try and see it before I will be sure of anything.
That’s a nice joke. Most limited engagments are the result of someone being dishonorable, but only two honorable people can fight an honorable fight. And sadly, EVE is simply not set up for honor anyway. Hesitation is often death, but in EVE honor demands hesitation as attention is taken away from fights and put into texted comms.
according to the notes you can’t rep anyone without risk of being concordokken… the rep mods shouldn’t work unless you set safety to red.
@hellokittyonline has been very vocal and whiny about the changes.
After the April release, the penalty for direct targeted neutral assistance meeting the conditions above AND occurring within highsec will become a criminal flag and CONCORD response. The safety system will prevent the activation of the targeted assistance modules under these conditions, so we suggest that support pilots in highsec engage their safety at either green or yellow levels to prevent unintentional CONCORDOKKEN.
For area of effect command bursts we are approaching the problem a little differently as you may want to continue boosting the members of your fleet that are not involved in a war. Therefore, after the April release neutral command bursts will simply not affect a pilot that meets the conditions listed above when activated in highsec space.
The increased penalty for neutral targeted assistance will also apply to limited engagements (such as those caused by duels) but for performance reasons we won’t be preventing command bursts from applying to pilots in limited engagements
Thank you all for the input!
But, according to the dev blog, boosts are possible in LE…: “The increased penalty for neutral targeted assistance will also apply to limited engagements (such as those caused by duels) but for performance reasons we won’t be preventing command bursts from applying to pilots in limited engagements.”
Well kinda. You are right that in a simple limited engagement, you can apply the boosts. However, if the target being boosted is in a war, and has a PvP timer, they cannot be boosted by a character in a different corp as per the previous paragraph from what you quoted:
For area of effect command bursts we are approaching the problem a little differently as you may want to continue boosting the members of your fleet that are not involved in a war. Therefore, after the April release neutral command bursts will simply not affect a pilot that meets the conditions listed above when activated in highsec space.
But yes, in the simple case you describe without a war involved, the boosts would work.
yep. thx. quite complicated “mechanics”. nvm, almost hypothetical situation all this.
o7
As an Austrian …
… what thought-process made you pick that name?
I’ve tried to get a historical name through once … (a relevant female russian sniper)
… but the GM didn’t allow it.
Actually, this isn’t properly documented anywhere, but AFAIK two pilots each having a limited engagement with a third one (the same for both) may rep each other.
That is, in the scenario described by the OP, Pilot3 wouldn’t be able to assist Pilot1 unless he also engages Pilot2, in which case I believe he’d be able to.
Well, being in a limited engagement is precisely what makes all the difference. Being in fleet, on the other hand, doesn’t matter at all. Never did. Crimewatch doesn’t care about fleets.
It’s not that things changed so you won’t become suspect now in situations where you would before. It’s that you would now become criminal in situations where you would only go suspect before.
What may have confused you is you may rep pilots being suicide ganked, but that’s because suicide ganking doesn’t by itself create a limited engagement. If the pilot being ganked retaliates, then that would create a limited engagement and you would see you cannot keep repping him anymore.
You should risk a yellow suspect flag, very few people contest them so its not a big of a deal.
I contest them when I see 'em.
I find this stuff very frustrating for a lot of reasons.
The main one being explaining to new people why I can’t fly with them and help or protect them even in a fleet. To me, from a real life standpoint, if I’m walking down the street and some thug comes along and starts bothering me the cops have little or no problem with someone who comes and helps me knocks the thug senseless, and even less if it’s someone I’m with. In both cases the cops will usually pay them on the back and say “nice work”. In Eve, if I escort someone in a hauler and they get attacked the cops come and kill me for helping the person I’m escorting. I have no way of knowing all of the possible reasons for the attack, like war or what ever, and even less time to figure it out so I have to keep safety on green and hope something good happens where I can shoot the baddie or rep the person I’m escorting or whatever. That’s never happened and I don’t really know why.
Something I would love to be able to do is screw with groups like CODE by repping new people’s ventures and helping them by shooting back. This is something that in real life any decent person would do, but can’t in Eve as near as I can tell.
To be honest, I can’t, after over a year of playing, get my head around this stuff, it makes no sense to me so I just keep my safety thing on green all the time and tell people there’s no point in having an escort since they can’t defend you. I tell them to use a scout instead but those are of limited use in most situations. CCP wants us to kill each other for whatever perverse reason they have and get they make it into something that’s not worth doing. If I shoot someone in lowsec for being a dink I loose standing, if I shoot them in highsec I get killed by the cops. What’s the point?
As I said above, my understanding of all this is limited by how complicated it is, to me is makes almost no sense though I understand that it might have something to do with people being obnoxious… Like CODE.
To me, not grasping this stuff after so long, I just tend to want to avoid everything, not because I’m afraid to get in a fight, but because concord is an idiot with a huge hammer. The result of this is that I hate flying in high and lowsec so I live in null and in wormholes instead. Just to make things less confusing, which to me is a pretty daft reason.
I see no reason why I can’t see someone in another corp getting beat up and step in, I see less reason why I can’t defend someone in my own fleet, and even less reason for someone in my own corp who is also in my fleet. It makes me wonder what a fleet is even for and why corps are even mandatory (I made my own just so I could get out of the NPC ones and not have to join someone else’s).
If there is a way to do this stuff I would love to know how, but I can’t get my head around all the rules and as an old boyfriend I showed Eve to put it “what do you mean? If I defend you the cops come and kill me? Wait, I can’t kill the cops either? What the hell kind of crap is that?” He logged off and never logged back in again…
So after that wall of text, here are my questions:
How do I defend people?
What is suicide ganking in terms of mechanics and why is it allowed?
What is concord baiting, is it allowed and how does it work?
And last, if CODE can do those last two things why do we get killed for standing up to them?
I’m using CODE as an example here since that’s all they seem to do and they always get away with it, I’ve seen their fleets of abandoned rookie ships and I know that somehow that is how they avoid concord…
Anyhow, enough typing, sorry about the wall of text.
Cheers!
That’s pretty dishonourable. Why would you want to stick your nose in the business of two other capsuleers? If one of them is acting criminally, CONCORD will be along to sort it out.
They kinda can. They just can’t rep you. You can’t interfere in another honourable fight, but you can easily start one of your own with the miscreant. If a player has a suspect or criminal flag, you, youor escorts, and everyone else can shoot them!
Well, it used to be like that, but it was changed because if you get to do that, so does the other side. Criminals were getting their fleetmates to rep them, and people complained loudly for years that that was “unfair”. So now no one gets to interfere in a limited engagement between two honourable capsuleers.
If you want fight as a group then that was what the war mechanic was for, but CCP kinda broke that after years of similar whining, and it is now pretty much inaccessible for anyone but the largest, most organized groups to use now.
Holy cow, thank you!
That not only answered my actual questions but some I didn’t know to ask.
I do have to say however I have never seen any honorable person start a fight, finish them yes, start them, no.
Seriously though, thank you for all that, I’m going to save this so I can refer to it later. I had no idea about the standing thing, that makes a lot of things more clear all by it self.
That part is was a little tongue-in-cheek.
But basically that was the rationale. People were being “dishonorable”, baiting people into shooting their suspect ship and then getting neutral reps, or interfering with neutral alts in a legal war. CCP tightened it all up in… April of 2019 as described in this devblog:
The side-effect though was that it is now not possible for defenders to provide neutral assistance to people being attacked by ne’er-do-wells.
I read that, it actually made it worse, your explanation however made that blog post make a lot more sense.
Knowing about the standing thing is going to be a lot of fun I think, this is something I didn’t know and wish I did ages ago.