The problem with this excuse is that d-scan is already done constantly. If you’re doing PvE with a potential threat in local or hunting for a target you’re already scanning as fast as the refresh limit will permit. The only difference automating it would make is that you can now get the information automatically instead of having to constantly press the button as fast as possible.
And really, I don’t see why the range calculations would be so difficult to perform. Every ship already has to do a bunch of range calculations to everything visible on the overview or on-grid with it. If anything d-scan calculations should be easier because you normally have a filtered list of objects that you’re checking range to and you can use approximated (and therefore easier to calculate) positions/distances without losing anything of value.
Wahahaha you have to edit what I say in order to feel good about your self LOL your very funny and not worth reading this is the last post of your’s I read, little one :].
Not everyone is hitting D-scan every second. If it was automated, then everyone would. Especially during large fights it would create lot of load for the server.
But even if it was automated not everyone would have d-scan up and active. If you’re in the middle of a fleet fight it doesn’t make much sense to have it cluttering up your screen when it isn’t adding much information. Use would mostly be limited to the cases where people are already generating the same server load.
Plus you’re overlooking the fact that if you go to an automated d-scan system you can also make optimizations for it at the same time. You can adjust the cycle time, calculate the scan results once per grid and give all ships on grid the same results at every scan interval, calculate using approximations (since who cares about a 1km distance error on a ship 10AU away), etc. You’d likely end up with less server load than the current system, where d-scan is manual but once you decide to use it you’re spamming the button as fast as possible.
Yea that’s the thing as well having an automated process during something like 9-4 would have made it a hell of a lot worse lol, I would much prefer a high slot module that upgrades the d-scan by giving a rough distance in AU and maybe seeing cloakies with less accuracy since they are cloaked and bending light (more distortion).
I see both sides. The repetitive “click” of d-scan really is crappy gameplay. But I don’t want to use up a ton of resources providing information the player doesn’t actually want (and the click is a great way to show you want it).
So set it up as a click to start, jumping systems turns it off and you need to restart. Or even closing the window turns it back off, it’s only automated when the window is open.
And make automated deep scan slower, at say 15 seconds per scan. It’s going to be enough for most people to have it at that pace as an automated thing sitting in a corner of your screen, and if you need more you click.
But in big fleet battles, the defenders will all turn it on even though they don’t need it much. This will cause a battle that might crap out at 6000 users to crap out with much less… aiding the defender.
I don’t know the answer. Maybe it goes to Manual mode if more than a certain number of ships are in-system or on-node. I’d love to have a constant “radar” d-scan without clicking repeatedly (or in my case hitting ‘V’) But I’d rather keep in manual than have a negative impact on gamelplay 100% of the time.
Automated d-scan or d-scan providing any further intel than it does already is a no from me.
Auto-d makes carebears safer and removes the need for any skill from d-scanning to get a fix for combat probes. Further intel on d-scan is essentially free intel that again, only enhances carebears and makes pvp less skilled. I don’t even like that it tells you the name of the ship, it should just tell you the hull type.
The only changes I can see myself supporting would be more hotkeys to quickly change angle and distance.
If you want to take about some ‘active radar’ modules that enhance d-scan but require you to gimp your fit a bit, then that’s a different story that might be an interesting discussion, but simply making d-scan auto is a big no from me.
Auto-mated d-scan makes it easier to spot an incoming hostile but I’m not against it happening. I think it should scan at 30 seconds intervals and/or have less range.
It absolutely does not make anyone safer or remove any skill. There is zero difference in information return between automatic d-scan and pressing the button as fast as you can, it just saves you from having to constantly click the button to keep the information refreshing.
Also, as I said before, “skill” with d-scan is an incredibly low bar to clear. A complete newbie can learn all there is to know about d-scan within a few minutes and use it just as effectively as a veteran. There’s no sense in worrying about “removing skill” for something that isn’t really a demonstration of skill in the first place.
I read your post before I posted, and I disagree with you wholeheartedly. I come from a background in a newbie corp, and I can tell you that teaching people to d-scan is actually quite bloody difficult. New players often have a very hard time wrapping their head around it. It is certainly a skill which needs to be mastered in my opinion. Granted some players will learn quickly, just like with any skill.
As an example, if you want to be a hunter you need to know know how important it is to get into a system and get a d-scan fix on your target quickly and efficiently so that you can drop probes and scan. The longer you take, the more time your target has to react. There is absolutely no way a new player can do that even remotely as well as a veteran. Try and catch a 10/10 runner with your newbie hunter and see whether that’s feasible in comparison to someone who has refined their skills. Not their sp skills, their hunting skills of which d-scan is a very large part. This is a skill which falls under the category of ‘easy to learn, hard to master’.
I also see a large difference in information. Sure, the results of each scan are the same whether it’s a player pressing the button or it’s automated however an automatic scan gives you automatic information without the need to press the button. Humans are fallible, automation is not. If automatic d-scan gave you the same information as someone mashing the d-scan button, that is making people safer as it’s taking the responsibility of gathering intel out of their hands and giving it to them for free instead. Now instead of being paranoid (as they should be) they just watch their magic d-scanner for free intel about whatever is within 14.3 AU without any need for input from themselves.
An example here is fighting blobs like Horde or Goons in a small gang or solo. You land in a site to gank a ratter, and you need to manage your d-scan as well as everything else to know when the response fleet is close so that you can get out or pull range. Once again, a skill that needs to be mastered to be good at taking on a standing fleet solo. Automating that process just makes it easier. No thanks.
Again, I’d not be opposed to modules which might automate d-scan or provide extra information, but giving that for free is not something Eve needs in my opinion.
Edit: All of that is not even touching on the server load issues after making all d-scan always on all the time.
Except your example here is an attacker, when talking about the defender it is an easy skill, since they don’t need to press C while on 5% angles to find which anom they are in. They just need it on 360 at max range.
And you have missed the fact that we are all talking about it being on a timer to avoid RSI, something that repetitive clicking of exactly the same thing, be it mouse or keyboard is proven to do.
And you seem to have utterly ignored the fact that there are a bunch of ways people have presented that avoid server load or potentially even decrease it from currently.
Try to catch the same 10/10 runner with the most experienced veteran and the outcome will be exactly the same. One of two things will happen:
The farmer is smart, and the moment you enter local they are warping to a station to dock until you leave. The absolute fastest possible time to get tackle on them, even assuming you guess their location on the first d-scan and get a warpable hit on the first probe scan, is much longer than their warp-out time. Both the newbie and the veteran fail here because success is not possible.
or
The farmer is stupid, and does not warp out as soon as a potential threat appears. In this case both the newbie and the veteran probably succeed. The veteran may be slightly faster, but the newbie is still capable of very basic tasks like “do a 5* scan on all signatures” and will eventually get a target. And because the farmer is stupid and ignoring the threat the slight increase in time required for the newbie to figure out where to drop their combat probes is unlikely to make a difference. Both the newbie and the veteran succeed because success is easy.
Skill, so far as skill is even a thing that exists with d-scan, is only relevant in the incredibly rare situation where you have a farmer who is intending to leave when a threat appears but very careless about watching for one, giving you a short window to locate them and get tackle before they finally realize the danger and warp out.
Humans are fallible, automation is not.
Failure is not possible in this case because the task is so absurdly easy. How incompetent do you have to be to fail at something as simple as “hover your mouse over the ‘scan’ button and click it as fast as possible”? This is not a meaningful test of skill, or something that involves interesting strategic decisions. It’s like claiming that taking auto-repeat off of all your modules would improve the game, because now getting your guns to fire would require skill. And why should the game give you something for free?
You land in a site to gank a ratter, and you need to manage your d-scan as well as everything else to know when the response fleet is close so that you can get out or pull range.
IOW, you put the d-scan window up set to 14AU and hit “scan” as fast as possible, calling “WARP OUT” as soon as something appears. Don’t act like this is somehow a challenging feat that only skilled players can accomplish.
Why would I pick the least skill intensive option, to demonstrate a point about something being skill intensive? Like, obviously I’m going to pick the scenario to use as an example that actually requires use of the skill I’m talking about.
This is true, however I’m yet to see this be raised as a serious concern by literally anyone. Be it in this thread or anywhere. Your response is literally the only mention of RSI in this whole thread, so no I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here.
Finally, I touched on the server load only in an edit and didn’t go into any detail so no I haven’t actually ignored anything at all. I mentioned one scenario and didn’t flesh it out on purpose because that post was already getting wordy.
tldr I don’t think any of the points you made above address anything I actually said with any level of constructive thought or criticism.
No. You don’t do that. In fact what you do is set it to about 3AU and make a determination based on the first few things that appear on scan as to whether you’re going to pull range and fight, or leave. You also don’t call ‘Warp Out’ because I was mostly talking about solo fighting a blob. Sure it works with a mate as well.
The point being that it requires your attention and your management. Removing that layer is removing a layer of skill, in my opinion.
Yes it is. Not pressing the button is failure. Not paying attention is failure. Getting distracted is failure. All of which are not possible if the system gives you the intel for free. All of those failures also apply to the above hunting scenario on both sides of the equation.
I’m not sure how much experience you’ve had exactly at hunting. It doesn’t sound like much, but I apologise if you’re actually God Tier and I’m wrong. This is just not how it works. For a start, 10/10 runners are not in anomalies they are in deadspace so spamming 5 degree scan does nothing. Like, your simplistic view of how this works indicates to me that it’s something you haven’t really done before so I’m not sure why you’re commenting on it.
That’s also willingly disregarding the fact that some people dont warp out right away, but instead wait for the probes to show up. If I’m running a 10/10 somewhere, if a neut comes in, I’m not going to just run away, I’m going to be eyeing dscan for probes. If I see 8 probes in a distance under 3-4 AU, then depending on my progress, I warp out, or I wait until I see them on dscan taking the first gate (ie <1 AU) and then I warp out.
Yes, those things require skill. There is clearly skill involved in deciding what range you should set d-scan to so you get the right warning time. There is skill involved in quickly interpreting the results you’re seeing and deciding if the threat is one that you should run away from, or one you should stay and fight. But none of this has anything to do with pressing the “scan” button. Having d-scan refresh automatically every 5 seconds instead of pressing the button every 5 seconds doesn’t help in any way with those skill-based choices. It just saves you from mindlessly clicking the button as fast as possible, just like having your guns on auto-repeat allows you to keep shooting without manually pressing F1 as fast as possible.
For a start, 10/10 runners are not in anomalies they are in deadspace so spamming 5 degree scan does nothing.
You do understand that signatures appear as icons in space, right? And that you can pivot the camera to them and scan at a 5* angle (or 15* if you’re too close, whatever)? Perhaps you should not be commenting on this subject if you don’t understand “advanced scanning skills” like this.
this is the last post of your’s I read, little one :].