The, hoped for, Future of EVEMon


(Marcus Tedric) #1

With the last update, EVEMon no longer shows the effect of Attibute Enhancers (implants).

And Morphite’s db entry has obviously changed - now I get income selling ‘blank’

But we hope for a future - nothing is as useful it seems…


(Do Little) #2

EveMon hasn’t changed so I assume the July 18 patch killed it. No specific mention in the patch notes but “Backend server changes have been made to make New Eden a better place” covers a lot of territory!

It’s over a year since there ha been a significant update and 7 months since we have had any update at all - even for minor stuff. We haven’t heard from Ashilta in close to 2 months and he hasn’t even created a thread in the new forum so the future for EveMon isn’t looking bright from my point of view.

This is a volunteer effort that people work on in their spare time as a “labor of love” and the pace of change over the past few of years have created major headaches for the 3rd party tool community.

Maybe a white knight will come along and rescue the project or maybe it will simply fade away like EFT - becoming less useful with every patch until it’s of historical interest only.


(JC Mieyli) #3

EFT got rescued already


(Dinsdale Pirannha) #4

Huh?
Seriously, I did not know that.
Has someone taken on the reins recently?


(JC Mieyli) #5

(Linus Gorp) #6

He doesn’t have the source code and unless he gets access to it (highly unlikely), there won’t be a future for EFT.


(JC Mieyli) #7

isnt it enough to just update the data files with stats


(Linus Gorp) #8

For the time being maybe. But as CCP changes more and more things about the game, more and more stuff in EFT will break that can’t be fixed with updating data files.


(Krima Sumyungi) #9

If the underlying code of the program no longer interacts correctly with the client due to coding changes done by CCP ( either intentionally or not ), “updating the data files with stats” will be useless as those stats will be corrupted immediately.


(R-0-B-0-C-O-P) #10

Is there any kind of proper replacement for EVEMon? Something that keeps track of multiple skill queues and bare minimum notifies you when your account is about to lapse?


(Ashilta) #11

Hi,

I’m not dead.

I hope for a future with EVEMon, I really do. However I inherited code that I would describe as complicated, and it’s taking time to reach a stage where I can do something productive with that. On top of that, I was unceremoniously dismissed from my last job at the start of the year, it took me a long time to find a new role and I’ve since been promoted within that new role - my real life has been busy.

All of this, however, is insignificant. There is a fundamental flaw within the OAuth process that CCP have implemented. To get information from the ESI API, I have to request “scopes” in the OAuth process. The problem is that to get the information I need for EVEMon to continue to work as it currently does, I need a LOT of scopes. If I try to make a single request, there are actually too many scopes for the OAuth workflow to handle - the request literally fails. I might consider working around this by getting multiple tokens, with the number of scopes required split across many tokens. Considering I have six accounts, this would require me to log in at least twice per character per account: 36 logins to get full tracking in EVEMon.

There was one EVEMon user who claimed to have 158 somethings being tracked in EVEMon, but I’m not sure if characters or accounts. Imagine, to keep the numbers easy, that was characters, that’s still 316 logins, assuming I can keep the scopes in just two tokens. I might need three…

I raised this for the attention of the team at CCP months ago and I’ve received no response. I have two choices: sit and wait and leave people with something that can be used as a skill planning tool, but not as completely as we’d like, or bring everything up-to-date but in such a way that you’ve got to log in repeatedly to get what you want.

I can do either. You tell me what you want and I’ll get it done, but until now I’ve been opting for the better user experience.

Ash


(Sarmatiko) #12

Is there really any choice options with current state iof EVEMon development? This may sound rude and ungrateful, but EVEMon already turned into abandonware and we have to rely on custom builds from third-party maintainers for months just to keep basics functional.

EVE API will shut down on May 8th, 2018. That’s less than a year and some may say there is enough time. But in context of last year of EVEMon development timeline, it is not much at all.

Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate priorities and transition maintainer reins to more dedicated hands or at least release “keep it functional” current updates even with basic ESI (even with manual logging, like other tools do)?

It’s fine to have “New-shiny-EVEMon-from-scratch-without-all-that-horrible-code” on distant horizon, but please, let’s be realistic.

Another thing - if you can’t handle EVEMon maintenance for whatever personal reason, please step up and ask for help or transition. There is a huge difference between “I code something, it will be ready soon, don’t waste your time on forks. (then abandoning project after years with half-done unpublished code)” and timely announcement “I can’t maintain this project, EVEMon needs volunteers and developers. Please help”


(Do Little) #13

I would like to see a maintenance release. It would be really nice if Evemon was at least aware of the new Upwell structures for those of us who use the tool to track assets and contracts.

3rd party tools like Evemon are an important part of the Eve ecosystem and, if you are experiencing difficulty getting developer support, I would raise the issue with CSM - @Steve_Ronuken is a developer himself and will be in Reykjavík for the summit next week.


(Ashilta) #14

Let’s talk about this for a minute:

It would be really nice if Evemon was at least aware of the new Upwell structures for those of us who use the tool to track assets and contracts.

I agree. However the problem is that the XML API doesn’t know about Structures - it’s not EVEMon that doesn’t know, the provider of data from CCP doesn’t know, and it never will. This is just one of the many reasons that we need to migrate EVEMon to use the ESI API rather than the XML API.

Steve is, I’m sure, aware of the OAuth issue. CCP need to resolve it and then we can crack on with making sure the damned thing works. In any event, as Sarmatiko states:

EVEMon needs volunteers and developers

Even with a usable and accessible ESI API implementation, there’s a mountain to climb to get the code base to a functional and maintainable state. I disagree with the statement that EVEMon is abandonware, there is a plan in place and I’m unable to progress with it because I can’t consume the API that CCP wants everyone to move on to; that’s the truth of it.


(The Invisible Man) #15

I am not sure if i really understand the problems you are talking about. But i think it is all about the downloading times of the character data.
The small amount of answer seems like i am not the only one.

First question is if EveMon should be able to handle a lot of characters or accounts. I somehow can’t believe that there is a player who has 158 accounts and using them actively. Skillpoint farmers maybe. Anyhow should you be programming EveMon for everyone including these people or would it be possible for them to find their own workarounds for their problems with EveMon for example having EveMon installed multiple times (even if it is in a sandbox (I don’t know if that would work)). The air should already getting thin if you’re going up to people who have more than 30 characters so something like a limit from 50 to 80 chars for EveMon could be set without harming too many users.

Can’t you workaround the other problems by downloading only the most important stuff like character infos and their list of known skills at the startup time of EveMon. And download the other stuff when he selects the character he wants to be shown in EveMon. Or download the data of characters he is not actively watching in the background.

Maybe setting a pause time (a few milli seconds?!) between the logins for the different characters or accounts would help to not stall the servers that ccp uses for this, too.


(Ashilta) #16

Hello,

Unfortunately it’s not so simple as that. It’s not about the time it takes to download the response to the request, it’s about the ability to make the request. I don’t have it. It’s not about getting results slowly over time, it’s not about the time it takes to log characters in, it’s about requiring a user to have to sit and log in to the same account more than once to get access to the information they need to use EVEMon properly.


(The Invisible Man) #17

Oh so you mean we have to type in our login data everytime EveMon needs to update. It’s not possible to save it in the EveMon memory?
Maybe CCP only gets their asses moving once they see what they created there. Have you brought this up on redit already? I heard CCP reacts more to things there.
I think i might somehow would come to accept it that way since i don’t have so many chars.

Greetings,
The Invisible Man


(Shiloh Templeton) #18

I have notifications setup, but the tooptip on the tray icon stopped displaying. Is there a trick to getting this to work (it used to ).

SOLVED: It turns out I had the Windows Action Center set to “Quiet Hours” which suppresses notifications. EveMon Icon tool tip is working again once I changed that Windows setting.

P.S. Ashilta, thanks for the effort to keep EveMon viable. I really count on this program. I’m surprised Steve isn’t able to provide more help.


(Benje en Divalone) #19

I haven’t tested this myself but does making the request to oauth/authorize as a POST operation instead of GET work? GET is going to choke with even a modest number of scopes in the request.


(Macker Momo) #20

Ashilta, thank you again for the work you and your team of contributors are doing to keep EveMon alive. I can’t imagine I would enjoy the game nearly as much without this valuable tool. I have four accounts and certainly wouldn’t mind logging in a few times per account, if that allowed you to move forward with enhancements.

I’m quite disappointed that the CCP devs are not assisting your further. Perhaps there are internal discussions that we are not aware of. I do agree that Steve R. is likely your best advocate on the CSM, though. Best of luck moving forward.

Wishing you a happy marriage and a successful career with your new company.