There are well over 100,000 jumps of all kinds per day. Maybe 10% of them are capitals.
I guess you have a problem with cherrypicking. As earlier stated.
Pretty sure the NCPL withdrew theirs before they get ■■■■ on because their options were
A: Lose keepstars
or
B: Lose keepstars and a ton of supers to a superior super fleet
I guess you could call glassing 4 keepstars and pretty much anything else in between them as posturing, if you’re kinda dumb.
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That is pretty normal use case for these and no where have I said that would not be the case.
Will follow through rest of your post momentarily.
It kind of seems like this thread already has enough delusional claptrap in it you can probably spare everyone the tedium.
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That actually is posturing.
What objectives of “glassing” 4 keepstars is there. What did it change over all?
Do you understand what a pitched battle is?
Avoidance is far superior. Did NCPL collapse and evaporate in this battle? Or are they still around. They look alive and well to me.
If supercaps were what you say they are why didnt Goon just steamroll to Berlin?
Why are they back to status quo after achieving a limited objective?
You think too much in one moment.
You are used to making points that dont support your argument but sounds good in an echo chamber.
UK took back Falklands. Did Argentina implode. Why not? Why does Argentina still exist?
Maybe because apparent superiority is based on its limited use.
As the US grossly found out in Iraq. Where it failed every single one of its objectives at great cost, to little more than small arms fire and home made bombs.
I mentioned something important to this topic and its so far been overlooked.
But subcaps are still the workhorse of day to day operations meeting a far greater amount of objectives with far greater diversity.
Stop cherrypicking with examples like supercaps were used to pop 4 keepstars.
I’m not saying supercaps have no place. But that subcaps certainly do.
Dude.
None of your post make sense.
AT ALL.
Any fleet of (correctly fit) caps will wreck an equivalent fleet of subcaps.
most subcaps can’t even break one cap.
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Goonswarm does not have a pilot shortage. We are not using 1000 titans and as many supercarriers because we don’t have the manpower. We’re using them because there is literally nothing subcapitals do that supercapitals can’t do, better, with less risk. Including kill frigates.
You know why we use subcaps at all? Warp speed, fatigue, escalation, and newbies. It takes supers forever to get anywhere unless they’re jumping. And if you want your org to be viable in the long-term, you need to have things for less-experienced pilots and FCs to do. There’s no way we’re handing out supercapital keys to inexperienced FCs, or even most of the mid-tier FCs. Because you can’t afford to welp your super-fleet, or any significant portion thereof.
And you don’t swing part of a hammer. If you’re gonna use supers offensively, you use them all, because anything less means you get hit with everything the defender’s got, to kill your supers. You can afford to commit piecemeal in your own space, because you can keep escalating as needed: everything’s right there. But you don’t do it on offense, because you don’t want to have to take the time to marshal and move the rest of them to support one fight. We’ve done that. It’s not fun.
But there is absolutely no reason to bring subcaps when you can bring supers, at home. At most, you send the subs because you want to hold the supers back for bigger fish. Hell, with enough experience, a fleet of supercarriers does a better job bubbling than dictors do.
As for this:
I have flown a subcap in two of the ‘great fleet battles’ of EVE: Asakai, and B-R5RB. I have flown subs, caps, and supers in fighting since, from Fountain to Hakonen to the X47 Keepstar timers. Let me tell you what role the subcaps had:
Nada.
In Asakai, the only subcaps with any role whatsoever were the Heavy Interdictors, because the infinite-point could hold down capitals and supercapitals. At B-R, initial tackle from HICs was quickly replaced with anchored bubbles. We spent 21.5hrs stuck in that hellscape of white space and smartbombs while titans traded DDs. Subcaps at best were useful to light cynos. For more supers.
In Fountain, as soon as the supers hit the field, subcaps were superfluous. Enemy subcap fleets couldn’t do a damned thing. Our subcap fleets were useful only so far as they kept the enemies bubbled—which, again, with the right experience, supercarriers can do without getting blown up.
In Hakonen, entire doctrines were designed around defanging supercarriers. They were ineffective. There was just nothing entire fleets of destroyers, cruisers, and battleships could do to slow down enemy supercapital operations.
In X47, subcaps hunted disconnects. That’s all they were good for. Everything else was trading DDs at max range while fighter-bombers applied damage from just outside the Keepstar’s Point-Defense range.
You can stand by your statement all you like, but supercaps are overwhelmingly superior.
You can call this cherry-picking, but I’ve seen them used for strategic fleets, home defense, ratting, roaming gangs… what scenario do you want to imagine where they’re not overpowered, other than WHs and Highsec?
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I don’t understand the problem. Are you complaining because subcaps having a hard time killing of capitals.
If that’s the case let me tell you that they should have a hard time.
In my opinion its already to easy to kill of a caps with a low amount of correct subcaps.
Caps/Scaps should require either other caps/supcaps or a huge amount of subcaps, simply to the fact that for the price of one cap/scap you can buy a shitton of small ■■■■.
If you want to fix something then start with bombers or covert ops ships in general. No damn counter to that damn cloaking mechanik and the dps of a bomber is just insane.
No.
He is complaining that caps are just BETTER than subcaps in almost every aspect. To the point there is no reason to fly subcap.
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That used to be the antithesis of eve’s design. For example, a battleship used to cost 100x the cost of a frigate, but a fleet of 25 frigates would obliterate any battleship. Price is not a balancing factor, especially in a game of every-increasing wealth. Much of eve’s balancing passes focused on balancing ships to have strengths AND weaknesses, so no ship was supreme in every role.
The price is not unimportant. Even in this case, with the higher price of a BS, you buy a less amount of player needed. Of course, you can’t take the cost as a balance anchor. But this should be kept in mind.
Well I really am not the biggest fan of eve’s very strange balancing model. I have seen other space or ship games doing it way better. I consider caps/scaps endgame content. Not only do you need a decent amount of money to actually buy them you also need huge amount of time to skill those. They should provide a serious punch and should also be able to take a good punch. The part about the the tackling (siren) seems a bit odd. I mean if you agress a carrier you normally don’t do it alone. And a squad of siren can be taken down in under 1 minute if every fleet member does listen and set the focus correctly. Especially sirens are slow as hell. If the cv pilot actually understand that his sirens are focused its mostly too late to safe them (if done correctly)
Price is irrelevant in terms of mechanical balance, but very relevant in terms of risk vs reward. Numbers matter, but typically in the form of a minimum amount of dps to break a tank. Smaller ships have lower net dps, and lower EHP, and suffer from attrition more rapidly. Once below the dps threshold, the fleet is completely ineffective at destroying ships. This is also why logi are so awesome, and often broken. They are the force multiplier that dramatically increases the dps to break a tank.
Another example of the balancing of EvE used to be exemplified by three strategic fleet types of circa 2012: Shield BCs, Battleships, vs AHAC fleets. Shield BCs were the relatively easy-to-fly doctrines used in many sov battles. One counter was a BS doctrine with significantly larger tanks, more dps, and better damage projection, enabling it to dominate the battle assuming similarly sized fleet. However, then the AB AHAC fleet developed, where BSs had a hard time applying dps to the lower signature cruisers. Often an AHAC fleet would wipe out the BS fleet. Meanwhile, the BC fleet could often go toe-to-toe with the AHAC fleet because it didn’t suffer from the damage application problem of the BS fleet. This was a decent balance, where bigger ships (BSs) had strengths (more dps, more tank) as well as weaknesses (hard time applying their damage). The price of the BS or BC or AHAC wasn’t relevant to the Rock-Paper-Scissors aspect of fleets.
Unfortunately, this balance is completely lost now, especially in the world of caps and supercaps. Much of this is because balancing Risk vs Reward is a different animal than balancing mechanics. When putting a very expensive fleet on field, players expect low risk and high reward, which the current system creates at the expense of balance.
Dude, have you actually spent your time outside of hisec?
Subcapitals just can’t really deal with caps. You need really overwhelming numbers. At least 10 subs for each capital - assuming you bring battleships and don’t end up run over by bombers.
Cruise typhoons with rage missiles have under 1K dps while having ~120K ehp. Meanwhile a dread will heav ehp measured in millions and dps in multiples of thousands - not to mention crazy active tank.
All capitals except industrials and freighters can deal with subs unless met with overwhelming numbers.
What for? That 100 caps can deal with whatever subs are left…
Lowest risk possible ARE CAPITALS.
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After insurance they are what, 500M-1B lost? It is not THAT much. I could afford to lose one daily and the only thing I would notice is red zkill and lack of profits.
Yeah, that strategy is called JUMP ENGINE.
Except that it is easier to find 1000 cap pilots than to find 10000 subcap pilots.
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If only there was a sub-capital ship that was capable of jamming Capitals without being targeted… hmmmmm 
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If I stick my finger in this sub capitols engine…gotta make a funny to break the seriousness of internet spaceships…pwe…pwe.