T2 CRAPitals incoming. Did CCP learned previous lessons?

Hello capsulated ladies and gentlemens! Hello Everyone!

You might already know that CCP announced T2 capital ships in upcoming updates.
So i just remind you the current state of caps/supers in EVE:

“Old vids” you might say. But situation wont changed since then.
If it possible to describe cap vs subcap balance in one picture it will be this:

So i’m not actually get the CCP point of adding T2 caps besides of dumping ISK/resources.
With current balance T2 caps will become just abother overpriced punch bag for everyone in the vicinity.
Over 20 years of EVE CCP seems wont learn the simple lesson that capital ships should be superior to subcap. Not much - i agree. But they shouldn’t be useless dummies.
So i hope CCP will finish their homework after 20 year in the end.



And thats absolutely fine. Capitals should be used to wreck static objects like Structures or other Capitals, defend your homespace against invasions or invade other peoples territory. They should (on their own) absolutely suck in every way against Subcaps and always need subcap-escort to apply on smaller ship classes, else you have a Power Spiral where the big guys just play Hotdrop Online™ again and just end every engagement by throwing caps on the field that blap blap blap decimate the other sides ships.


Caps not much accessible you know?
You need training, you need pay for hull, for fit - caps are refrained by that. You cant just throw and throw and throw them onto battlefield.

There are groups that certainly can. A long time ago „bragging about winning in nullsec“ in EvE went from talking about killmails to talking about the huge number of hulls sitting in a hangar.

The rorqual buffs of yore helped this mindset significantly.

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My timing is way off, and the sentiment goes against the one in OP’s post, I know, I know … But in the interest of balance, and because bombs are cool …

200w (7)

CCPlease, can we also have those cruiser sized bombers now, you know the ones @CCP_Rise was dreaming about years ago ?

A lot of space nerds would love those:
giphy (67)

Can’t have these t2 capitals without a counterbalance somehow, can we.

Alright, alright, doesn’t have to be new bombers - you all love to hate us - but something at least, like guided bombs ?


Actually all major battles winned mostly by cap numbers.
There is no contradiction here.
I’m talking about daily routine and usual cap vs subcap combat.
Not a thousand players battle with 3 FPS and 10% TiDi. It’s not the case

People said the same for T3 Cruisers, for Factionbattleships, for Triglavian Ships, for Marauders, for BlackOps, for Supers… Neither Cost nor Skilltime matter much, if these ships are maximizing the punch-per-pilot, they will be produced and used in masses and thrown into any situation where they ensure easy victory.


Skill injectors and coalition skill injector farms make the training argument moot. Paying for the hulls? Have you seen how many Zirns and faction supers people throw around like worthless carnival candy? T2 caps are not going to be restricted at all by any of these aspects.


OK… then you’re trivially right, in “cap vs subcap combat” the side with capital ships usually doesn’t just keep tossing in more capital ships, because they usually already have enough to control grid anyway and have done their homework to prevent the other side from escalating in the first place. :roll_eyes:

And then if they do escalate to cap vs cap warfare it’s no longer what you’re talking about (“cap vs subcap combat”).

No contradiction, but nothing useful said either.

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Bah… We just got Faction Dreads…

Carriers need some love.


Mb faction dreads will survive 30 second longer against dozen of T3d’s or Kiki’s but overall situation wont change - they cant fight back and will die.

Why the hell you dropping dreads on rubbish?

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Usually rubbish drop on caps. To kill them ofc.
Did you ever watched the vids from OP.

Seems like an Intel Problem to me.

And no I did not watch the videos.

I’ve lost 2 Moros in my whole Eve time… and both to other Cap Fleets.

But I don’t engage in silly 1000 vs 1000 nullsec bull.


In all vids the caps deserved to die hard. The subcap users clearly had better knowledge and skill on how to use their ships on the field.

You mean - knowledge that caps cant hit them?
Well, it’s pretty obvious… “knowledge”

No. Knowledge how to move, which ship to primary, how to delay reinforcements, how to avoid being caught when the reinforcements finally arrived. Don’t play dumb, the skill difference between the pilots in these videos is obvious. It is a very very good design element that you can’t just counter any ambush with “hey lets open a cyno and throw 10 caps on them!”.

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Do you really think Thanatos from 2nd vid coud ever get reinforcements? He’s died in less than a minute. What a robots you need on watch 25/8 to react this?
Also. 1st vid clearly shows that reinforcement wont help much. They seems to call entire cap umbrella and still loosing ships even under bunch of FAX’s

Probably a crappy fit with almost no tank, for max farming efficiency. Shall he burn in hell.

None. Just educate your pilots that if they get caught alone against a hostile gang, they will probably die. Like any other ship would.

Oh no. Still losing ships when fighting against like two dozen Nagas? I’d say: fit enough buffer and have your FAX pilots be on their toes. They knew what they would engage before they jumped. Anyone not having double Kin/Th hardeners on full overheat in the lows deserve nothing but a transformation into a shiny wreck. But they were problably dummies who thought “yea just throw 15 caps on them, why should we care what they have, we have CAPS!!!1111oneoneone”.

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If caps are great against other caps, and structures, and sub caps, what’s the draw back? It’s not price or training, because the amount of isk and cap availability I saw just in goons was stunning. HAW dreads do just fine against subcaps, there’s no reason to skew that anymore in one direction. That’s just begging for Snuff to drop 40 T2 dreads in every fight even more than they already do with no downside.