The 'Pay To Win' Myth

[Karak_Terrel]

I will reflect on that man. Maybe you are right

[Karak_Terrel]

@Altara_Zemara

You rattle on as if you were protesting about some unfairness…

I’m seriously not sure where you get this idea from. Nowhere in my post do I talk about fairness, except when I point out that you do and project it on others.

This isn’t about being fair, it’s simply about calling pay2win mechanics pay2win mechanics and not lying to ourselves just because we like the game.

@Altara_Zemara

And you think some noob in his Merlin buying 50 PLEX so he can get a Gnosis rather than mining for 4 hours is a threat to that ? Seriously ?

No one cares

[Vokan_Narkar]

@Altara_Zemara

Nobody who simply ‘plays the game’ via grind has a hope in hell of ever catching up on the un-level playing field that is a game in which people already have a 20 years head start on you !

Which is exactly the argument used by new players who claim EVE is pay2win game before they quit and write this into steam review.

Ie. “you can only compete with veterans if you pay cash”.

This is not the first time you proved that EVE is blatantly pay2win game. Keep it up!

[Azazod]

What are you crybears whining about now?

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Altara_Zemara

The P2W aspect of it does not bother me half as much as the concept that someone can buy kills they never actually took part in.

I’m for sale.

[Ax_l_Thorne]

@Io_Koval

You are beyond having a reasonable discussion with.

And now you know I blocked him.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Karak_Terrel

No one cares

You obviously do or you wouldn’t spend 500 posts desperately trying to explain what P2W ‘means’.

@Karak_Terrel

This isn’t about being fair

Then what is the problem ?? You’re almost as bad as Lucas…who would spend 200 posts making a point and then another 200 denying he’d ever made that point.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Vokan_Narkar

This is not the first time you proved that EVE is blatantly pay2win game.

No…it is ‘pay to stand even the remotest inkling of a chance of catching up’. Dunno where anyone gets the ‘win’ bit from.

[Vokan_Narkar]

@Io_Koval

Third, to me, both of these reflect that your behavior is reflecting not engaging and treating others like human beings with original thought, but you’d rather just scream out your deep passion for the one idea you want to harp on until the end of time because to you it’s the only one.

I find all his responses highly logical and accurate. He is not projecting his emotions into the responses unlike “your” side.

Your side is heavily projecting emotions into their responses and is not willing to listen to the reason. All the arguments of your side can be summed to one. “You can’t win EVE therefore EVE is not pay2win.”

That is the only argument your side has and you keep repeating it over and over. When someone tries to explain why this argument is not a valid one, like me, he is conveniently ignored, or his post is derailed using various discussion fauls. Methods that specifically you (or was it @Ax_l_Thorne ? sorry I keep mistaking you two) in other threads call out immediately. But not here.

It is clear that you guys will never admit that the game you enjoy playing could be pay2win. The whole term has so pejorative meaning for you that you could not stand EVE being pay2win. Otherwise why so much resistance in a first place?

And most importantly. It really doesn’t matter whether you persuade Karak me and other few posters about EVE not being pay2win.

We are not the ones who are posting negative reviews on steam about game being pay2win, nor anywhere else. It is new players and I dare to say that majority new players comes to the conclusion that EVE Online is blatantly pay2win game. One of the worst actually. Everyone who asked me about EVE (since they saw on a discord that I play it) and whom I explained what the game is about came to that conclusion, my brother who tried it (second time) recently came to that conclusion too (and refused to play even when I offered him PLEX for 6 months I earned ingame) and plenty of other new players came to this conlusion otherwise EVE wouldn’t be branded as pay2win game in general, would it?

There is a thread about EVE being pay2win every now and then from a new player, but your side simply marks the poster as an alt of some bitter vet because why would some newbie came to the forum and wrote it right? Well I am definitely not making alts to write on forum about pay2win and i doubt @Karak_Terrel is doing that either. These are legit new players and its them you need to persuade about EVE not being pay2win.

[Ax_l_Thorne]

@Vokan_Narkar

It is clear that you guys will never admit that the game you enjoy playing could be pay2win.

What is it you will win if we do admit its P2W?

You said here:

@Vokan_Narkar

And most importantly. It really doesn’t whether you persuade Karak me and other few posters about EVE not being pay2win.

Then surely the reverse is true. Does it really matter if you persuade Io and me if it is P2W.

What’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.

I’m also curious as to why you keep banging on about the supposition that you’ve eluded to, that P2W games are trash. But you’ve said that P2W games aren’t trash?

This double standard you keep on this is baffling to me.

Does it really matter at the end of the day if EvE is P2W or not? Will anyone care 10 years after the plug is pulled?

So, CCP sells services and stuff for cash. Does that really bother you so? It’s really gotten under Karak’s skin that he’s got his panties in a twist yelling from on high that this game is absolutely P2W and anyone who doesn’t see, or agree with him, has some sort of head trauma.

[Vokan_Narkar]

@Ax_l_Thorne

Then surely the reverse is true. Does it really matter if you persuade Io and me if it is P2W.

Well the thread was started by your side, wasn’t it? But yes. I really don’t care, you can see that I posted whatm 6 posts total here? I gave my opinion and moved on. But I still read it and I responsed today because seeing you blocked Karak and Io Koval is also accusing him of unfair discussion. I think I read all posts and do not see that.

Oh and of course few hours ago I replied to altara because she basically proved the opposite what is she trying to prove the whole time lol.

@Ax_l_Thorne

What is it you will win if we do admit its P2W?

Obviously a forum battle. As a forum warrior that is what I live for

[Ax_l_Thorne]

@Vokan_Narkar

Well the thread was started by your side

My side?

Interesting you say that. I don’t really take sides.

I have my views, and my take on things. They align with others, sometimes. And sometimes they don’t.

Do you, take sides?

As for Karak, accusing people who are on “copium” is highly insulting. And here is why.

1. is coping a bad thing? He sure seems to think that people who are coping (with any sort of issue) in general is a bad thing. And that is not always the case.

But the real kicker is this:

2. making it sound as if it’s some sort of additive drug. And for people who have dealt with, or are dealing with, and fighting real drug addiction, something like that is very off putting, degrading and just plain inappropriate. I’m surprised CCP or at the very least ISD hasn’t stepped in and put a stop to that.

That right there was the real catalyst for my blocking him. It shows just how desperate he is to win favor in this totally ridiculous discussion that he’s willing to destroy his own personal character over it. And for what exactly?

I got it plain and clear. He hates this game. He thinks it’s trash, and that’s fine. But I personally don’t want to keep reading post after post after post of the same regurgitated hate filled rhetoric. Sorry, I just don’t. I play the game for fun. Sometimes to get a bit of satire in. A little lively discussion. But at the end of the day, I don’t associate with truly toxic people.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Is poker pay to win?

What about slots?

[Io_Koval]

@Vokan_Narkar

That is the only argument your side has and you keep repeating it over and over.

You’re making the same mistake as Karak did and you’re smart so you can figure it out without having to make me repeat myself.

[Karak_Terrel]

@Altara_Zemara

@Karak_Terrel

This isn’t about being fair

Then what is the problem ?? You’re almost as bad as Lucas…who would spend 200 posts making a point and then another 200 denying he’d ever made that point.

Feel free to point out where I talked about pay2win in EVE being unfair

[Karak_Terrel]

@Ax_l_Thorne

As for Karak, accusing people who are on “copium” is highly insulting. And here is why.

1. is coping a bad thing? He sure seems to think that people who are coping (with any sort of issue) in general is a bad thing. And that is not always the case.

But the real kicker is this:

2. making it sound as if it’s some sort of additive drug. And for people who have dealt with, or are dealing with, and fighting real drug addiction, something like that is very off putting, degrading and just plain inappropriate. I’m surprised CCP or at the very least ISD hasn’t stepped in and put a stop to that.

Honestly, you start to sound like a carebear who is out of arguments and starts to drag the topic into real life by relating ganking with real world violence.

Copium is a term that is widely used in gaming culture and describe among similar things, this exact behavior of fans of a game refusing to accept against all reality that their game has become blatantly pay2win.

I’m sorry if the internet hurts your feelings with it’s sometimes rather sarcastic takes on new word creations. Maybe you can just turn off your router to be save.

@Ax_l_Thorne

I got it plain and clear. He hates this game. He thinks it’s trash, and that’s fine.

I love this game. I love it so much that I don’t just look the other way when it starts to do micro-transactions and pay2win mechanics. I’m more concerned with the crowd it is hanging out with, I think all the mobile game victims who try to excuse the overuse of monetization are a bad influence for EVE.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Karak_Terrel

Feel free to point out where I talked about pay2win in EVE being unfair

Ah…this is where we go round the ’ if it’s not unfair…then what’s the problem ?’ loop for the 500th time. Such loops are a sure sign of dishonest arguing.

[Karak_Terrel]

@Altara_Zemara

Ah…this is where we go round the ’ if it’s not unfair…then what’s the problem ?’ loop for the 500th time. Such loops are a sure sign of dishonest arguing.

Yeah I can just point you to a previous answer to the very same question you now have and then you can loop there alone. I don’t think it helps if we repeat that:

@Karak_Terrel

And I’m not sure how many times you ignore the answer to your complain. Just because money people spend on EVE to advance their characters don’t matter in the big picture of things, doesn’t mean that what CCP put into the game are not pay2win mechanics.

Here you go

[Altara_Zemara]

Nope…you still haven’t said what the problem is. Even if there are ‘pay2win mechanics’…so what ? As I’ve now said 500 times, in a game where noobs join and find people are 20 years ahead, the real elephant in the room, it is increasingly the case that ‘pay2win mechanics’ are the only way for any noob to stand even the remotest chance of keeping up…let alone ‘winning’.

Maybe CCP just rightly decided that people gatekeeping their 20 year advantage was more unreasonable than ‘pay2win mechanics’.

[Karak_Terrel]

@Altara_Zemara

Even if there are ‘pay2win mechanics’…so what ?

I answered this many times, here for example:

@Karak_Terrel

It’s pay2win because the game allows you to pay money to acquire things that are game relevant instead of acquiring them by playing the game. It’s as simple as that, it doesn’t matter if the impact of that is negligible, it damages immersion and dilutes in-game achievements all the same.

@Altara_Zemara

in a game where noobs join and find people are 20 years ahead, the real elephant in the room, it is increasingly the case that ‘pay2win mechanics’ are the only way for any noob to stand even the remotest chance of keeping up…let alone ‘winning’.

You already told us that you don’t care about new players catching up, so why are you now recycling those lines again to make a new excuse for the existence of pay2win mechanics?

Also if you think that pay2win mechanics are a necessity for EVE to have a catch up mechanic then you clearly just lack imagination.

@Altara_Zemara

Maybe CCP just rightly decided that people gatekeeping their 20 year advantage was more unreasonable than ‘pay2win mechanics’.

Now you are just projecting again. I don’t care if people “catch up”. But I think it is an insanely bad look for the game if the prime catch-up mechanic is injecting thousands of dollars into a game you just started playing. This is exactly why people will write into the Steam review that this game is blatant pay2win garbage

I know, now you will argue again that they can’t catch up anyway… and round we go…