In what sense is it any less a ‘grind to win’ mechanic if one person has 3 hours a day to mine and another only has 1 hour a day ? Why should a person with intrinsically more time have an advantage…yet someone with money to make up for that lost time shouldn’t ?
Why should someone who makes 200k a year be able to sit down, swipe, and in 30 seconds accomplish something a guy who makes 40k a year would take a hundred hours of game time to earn?
I think the premise of your argument is flawed in that it sets up a false equivalence logical fallacy that assumes there’s a need to equalize achievement gaps in a video game. The question was originally posed about whether or not EvE is pay2win and the answer is ‘yes, it’s 100% pay to win’ in 2024.
How did it become like this? Well, I’ll just repeat what I said above:
“EvE sold its soul when it made the decision to allow for this and there’s no going back. Does it suck? I think so. It is what it is though–most companies sellout on their core principals the end. This example is no exception.”
Maybe if the guy earning 40K a year spent less time playing Eve…he’d be earning 200K a year.
I was waiting for you to undermine your premise by saying something like that. Thanks, you quickly took the bait and made it quite clear what this post is really about. Namely, wealthy players defending their entitlement to pay their way to victory thereby bypassing the time and work necessary to obtain such things.
This was never about equity.
Now no one should take your posturing seriously.
On behalf of disabled players everywhere making life work on a fixed income, please show yourself to the door; you can let yourself out.
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Nawww…you took my bait…as I was then waiting to respond that I ‘pay to win’ living off the state pension.
‘Wealthy players’…gimme a break.
you both took MY BAIT ! … muhaha … whats the content of your posts ?
Apparently, having £10 to convert into 1.2 billion ISK means one is incredibly wealthy !
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Wow, That’s a new one.
Of course you would drag that into argument. Because that’s all you got. Shock and awe and victimizing the disabled.
I’ll tell you, I know a lot of disabled people that make a hell of a lot more money than I do on a year to year basis. And somehow I manage to budget for omega.
Nice try tho.
You just want equality of outcome. Which anyone with half a braincell knows that that means.
An equal amount of nothing.
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Pay2win? Naw
I pvp just fine on my deadend retail job.
Isk is easy, just don’t be lazy 
Best way to get isk? Social Engineering (Scamming) 
Sadly the best ways to make isk are disappearing (3rd Party and Isk Gambling Services)
Hypernet is just a scam.
PLEX I’m itself isn’t harmful but it’s borderline to a precedent that will cross the line if not kept in check. In fact a lot of the games if not all video originally have roots and based off of the innovation and standards created by hardcore games which was required of them by the players that played them. Ultima Online was such, which is one of the first 2 MMOs and where the term originated from. It’s roots came from both a certain type of MUD and I’m part one of the first online dungeons and dragons games that was featured on AOL in the 90s called Neverwinter Nights (no association with the other games of same title except for taking place in Forgotten Realms). In fact hardcore gamers have been around much longer than casual players which can still be considered in it’s adolescence at most. What you don’t realize is that for the most part we’re good helpful people but close knit and have a code and set rules we go by if at times semi loosely in certain aspects. The one thing that is unforgivable and will draw the wrath of all even to the point of possibly halting an ongoing war with the joint purpose of eradicating someone that’s done such transgressions. This includes constantly being ridiculed publicly at their expense to even months outside a station to camp the person until they quit. This behavior also didn’t origate in Eve but has been around much longer in other games including MUDs which is where I originally did long term camping which has staying in the same spot for weeks and not leaving until they’ve been killed. It’s also why there’s a timer for safely logging off and just closing the game still leaves you in it. It’s to prevent people from exploiting a couple things that were common in earlier games. One trying to avoid death by disconnecting or hiding. The other one is for when being camped, coming in briefly to see if it’s safe then disconnecting before they can locate your position.
We also love finding creative ways and many even to the point of exploiting them beyond their intended use. Rooks and Kings was infamous for doing this. Also if you think it’s harsh and difficult now, the game is much more tame than how it was many years ago. This is the easy mode you’re playing. If you keep changing hardcore games into casual games you might find hardcore gamers running around and killing everything in site and treating it like a hardcore game. Video games were great before casual players and will still be great without em. As you said there’s more casual games companies are making. Stay out of our games and play those. We become much bigger aholes when you mess with the games we play and nerf the stuff that are the core if why we play them.
Also it’s more than just PLEX but in how it’s used or what’s bought with it. Eve Echoes is a perfect example of why certain things need to remain out of the game and this includes any items that are built and sold by Indy or better quality than what they make. Which is a P2W mechanics that essentially turns Indy and the devs into direct competitors. When a player is competing against the devs who do you think is going to come out on top? If Indy gets screwed the rest of the game will be following shortly after. It’s what’s currently going on in Eve Echoes and other games that did this. Even buying skill points or blueprints with AUR or PLEX will drastically affect one aspect of the game including PvP. It’s not for everyone but it’s also what helps keep other parts of the game going. When you lose your ship in pvp you’re helping traders and Indy with buying a new ship from them. If you stop losing ships others are going follow and Indy can no longer survive if nothing they make is being bought. There’s also a reason why it can take months or years of training before you can fly a ship and even then might not be trained enough to properly fly it. While working your way in training skills you’re learning to play very complex mechanics that in many cases involving manual piloting and any attempts to even orbit can get you killed. It’s also how we test ourselves and improve our skills. The harder it is the better we become when we successfully complete it.
I also know for a fact that once you get into an expensive ship and lose it for being stupid and not knowing what you’re because you got yourself speed tracked by buying SP. Only to lose your carrier to a fleet of destroyers which I’ve been in such a fleet of 20 svipuls, 2-3 ceptors, a Sabre and one scalpel in the fleet that took down a Thanatos. Yet instead of asking yourself and others to learn why this happened and instead used to the rules bigger is better, will complain that svipuls need to be nerfed when they already have been and In a spot that the last I checked is more balanced. It’s also when, you have any hope of understanding the game, the bigger is better rule doesn’t apply. It’s the bigger they are the harder they type rules in here where a frig can be a BS or caps worse nightmare and it’s supposed to be in keeping it balanced.
First,
you dont speak for me.
2nd, Im retired have been for a decade now.
3rd I make less than 2k per month tax free.
4th) I have all the time in the world to play games.
5th subbing with cash instead of plex would be P2W in your opinion,especially for someone like me.(see 2nd and 4th points)
my opinion: EvE is not p2w, you are very very stupid if you are dropping hundreds or thousands into this game without knowing how to play, its a full loot PvP game. If you are not dying you are not learning…unless you are purely a station trader…then you are not even playing the game. Of course I will admit that not even I will discourage the very very stupid…i will shrug, then i will take their plex by in game means, then if i cross them…I will smile, then I will gank them, repeatedly if neccesary for being a wallet warrior that knows nothing. As they cry in some corner of the forums somewhere.
People talk a lot of BS, doesn’t mean anything they say is true. EvE pay to win? Ridiculous.
Pay all you want, can’t buy experience.
How much experience do you need to learn to target who the FC tells you to?
Mr Epeen 
Pay all you want. It’s your money, and it’s just a game. Have fun! Enjoy yourself!
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a lot ! ive seen many newbros who cant follow the FC´s orders because they didnt know what to do … !
means → still a “F1 Monkey” need some experience and you cant buy it !
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How strange. How can they not know what to do when the FC tells them what to do? 
Billionairs blow up all the time. I am one of them. OR did I miss the gold ammo I can get? Where in the NES is that?..lol.
Cold start after many years in wow-ville. I relearn many things now. About the same things as a dude who jsut went on an injector party with irl funds.
The difference is I can see a blow up, accept I messed up, and work out wth I did wrong maybe.
There was a player who thought excatly like that…lost 5 officer capital ship on an high sec gate in low sec
he quited eve
so no, i don’t think have a fatass salary make the game pay to win