EVE is actually a very deep game. I suspect OP has never ventured beyond the first layer, like most people tbh.
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didnt read your post just came in to comment on this cringe garbage you wrote
if you didnt write this i probably would have read the rest of your post but
you basically undermined your own thread with this crap lol
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Thank you for the TL;DR
edit: Anyway, the population has actually been stable for the last 3 years.
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You lost me right there. Best not to lead with a complaint about one of the major draws of the game â a large portion of the fun is being stuffed in a single shard with the scum of the universe.
What venue looks the most fun to you, Mos Eisley cantina or Ten Forward?
More of the above, or more of the below?
Iâll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
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no worries, the rest was waffle.
No, you are pretty much wrong.
Eves five biggest issues for player loss:
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Player Base has gotten older. The average player for even when i started in 2004 was 30. that held for several years. What that means in players who started in 2003/04 are in there 40âs/50 and players who started later are entering there 40âs. This means they have less time for games and are most likely doing more family and work related activities. As lots of people had families later, or as there kids got older there priorities changed. This is one huge factor
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The mentality of games has changed. Back when eve started, hurry up and wait was fine, most games had more patience, and had no issue losing themselves in a game. You can see this based on all the games out around the same time. MMOâs had long travel times, and was a slow burn. This has changed. WOW keeps its customers because they utterly changed that wait time. Want to play the biggest dungeon now? make a new account start at max level. Players went form being able to explore and find there own stuff, to âi want to ride that ride now!â The tide might be slowly shifting back with games like Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey, but the mentality of the current generation of gamer is âplay now screw waitingâ. And you can see this mentality every single day on the forums if you look.
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Changes to how eve is fundamentally played. EVE is currently in a 10 year rebuild/repair cycle. What this means is broken or out of date mechanics that do not make sense or were written back when the mantra was âmore GHZ!â vs âmore CORESâ get re written. this causes players who used to like certain mechanics or design to complain and leave. People dislike change, and sometimes change has to come for new â â â â to be made.
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Account reduction. Things like jump fatigue (which fits in #3 and #4) isboxer changes, and other things have causes people to shed accounts. When new structures come like gates, i am sure you will see more accounts sheded.
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New ways to spend your time and money. The market is saturated will all kinds of things to spend money on, console, mobile gaming, competition, etc. Take into account that the mentality of gamers now is jump in, do something, jump out, and a game like eve that is still âhurry up and wait for your FC to say lets go to warâ makes people do other stuff.
Stagnation, which is caused because of the both the rebuild period, and large groups being too scared to attack each other for whatever reason is just the effect of greater symptoms.
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As a direct counter to your points 1, 2, and partially 3, take a look at the history of SWTOR: They released the game, with 4 Republic classes (including 2 Jedi classes), and 4 Empire classes (including 2 Sith classes). And then they discovered that the player population on EVERY SINGLE SERVER they had was 3:1 Empire:Republic. People like to unwind and âplay evilâ, itâs just more fun. Doesnât mean theyâre evil in real life any more than playing elf means youâre an elf in real life.
Additional proof: the GTA games have been immensely popular, and if you look at what youâre allowed to do as a player in the last few GTA games⌠itâs not âbeing good.â
So your points 1, 2, and 3, about people wanting to play âgoodâ, have actual statistics that say otherwise. Do you have any statistics where people like to play the good side in a game more than the evil side?
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EVE is NOT a simulation. EVE is a strategy game. Chess is NOT a simulation of medieval combat, chess is a strategy game. You have all these different âunitsâ in EVE (the ships), that have different features and different roles, and youâre playing a âconquer the mapâ or at least a PVP âwar strategy gameâ from the point of view of a single unit. Those big alliances in 0.0 space that claim huge chunks of the map, and have huge wars involving thousands of âunitsâ on each side, THEY are playing the game correctly, or at least as intended by the developers. Everyone who sits in high-sec mining or soloing missions, imagining theyâre some sort of Han Solo flying their special little ship⌠the game does not support that. Thereâs no epic arc, no ship is special, everything is repetitive, gathering ISK is a grind, and all of the developer updates and changes are aimed at changing the âunitsâ / ships, adding new units / ships, or other PVP war machines and scenarios, for the strategy game.
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The game IS biased against pirates, suicide gankers, thieves. You just donât see it. There are repercussions, itâs just that the high-sec crowd is so apathetic and unorganized that they donât do anything about it. Seriously, form a corp, go to war, counter-spy, kill them till they cry. People who care to do this have already moved out of high-sec, and are enjoying themselves in low, null, or wormhole space. Where âpiratesâ are just âvalid targetsâ, âgankersâ are just valid PVP targets, and âthievesâ are first of all given free capital ships to use, and then killed by their own corp buddies for fun or if they make a mistake. God forbid, if you piss off the group, theyâll kick you out, and then you have the fury of 30,000 goons or PL or whatever that you pissed off, griefing you so hard that youâll give up the game and cry for a week.
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I appreciate your well thought out argument. You make some good points, but itâs impossible to definitively prove that the sketchy side of Eve leads to player loss. Sure, some people donât like it, but there are plenty that play the game because the danger and excitement it creates, even if youâre moral and upright. Itâs a sandbox and the variety of behaviors and reactions are a big part of what makes a game that is mostly about shooting space rocks with a little pew pew interesting.
I would make the case that problems with player retention has more to do with steep learning curves and being somewhat punished if youâre not in a well organized and active corporation. Corporations like Eve University and Red vs Blue are what keeps players learning and growing. I wish more could be done to steer new players in their direction.
Based on your experience, I think you can make the case for some changes to mechanics, like more EHP for T1 haulers so the actually have a chance to last a few more hits from a solo ganker (especially since itâs a long road to a T2 hauler for a new player). Concord could be a little smarter, so ganking carries a little more risk than simply doing a mathematical risk vs reward calculation.
Also, you can set up hauling contracts. I do my industry in high sec and am more than happy to pay a professional to do it rather than risk my cargo and deal with the tediousness. New players sometimes get caught up in being self reliant, when you can hire other players to do âworkâ for you so you can do more of what you like. There is more cooperation in this game than on a surface glance.
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For a game that doesnât support that play styleâŚIt sure seems to support that play style! Why did they put high sec mining and missions in the game to begin with? BecauseâŚweather you like it or not, there are players that enjoy it. Your way of playing isnât the only way. A smart game developer will support multiple play styles. More play styles=more players=more money.
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ok itâs that time
Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they donât feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that youâre not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.
Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. Itâs a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.
While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you youâre going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players whoâve had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that itâs enough to make your head explode.
The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold. Itâs about action and reaction, and the story that unfolds as you experience these two things.
True, weâre working hard to lower the bar of entry so that more players can enjoy EVE and can get into the game. Our NPE (New Player Experience) is challenging, and weâre trying to improve it to better prepare rookies for what lies out there, but when you start to play eve, youâll always start out as the little fish in the big pond.
The only way to grow is to voraciously consume whatâs around you, and its your choice whether that happens to be New Edenâs abundant natural resources, or the other people whoâre also fighting their way to the top.
EVE is a playing experience like no other, where every action or reaction resonates through a single universe and is felt by players from all corners of the word. There are no shards here, no mirror universes, no instances and very few rules. If you stumble across something valuable, then chances are someone else already knows where you are, or is working their way toward you and you better be prepared to fight for what youâve discovered.
EVE will test you from the outset, from the very second you undock and glimpse the stars, and will take pleasure from sorting those who can survive from those whoâd rather curl up and perish.
EVE will let you fight until you collapse, then let you struggle to your feet, exhausted from the effort. Then when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel itâll kick you flat on your ass in the mud again and ask you why you deserve to be standing. Itâll test you against every other individual playing at some point or another, and itâll ask for answers.
Give it an answer and maybe itâll let you up again, long enough to gather your thoughts. After a few more steps youâre on the ground again and itâs asking more questions.
EVE is designed to be harsh, itâs designed to be challenging, and itâs designed to be so deep and complex that it should fascinate and terrify you at the same time.
Corporation, Alliances and coalitions of tens of thousands have risen and fallen on these basic principles, and every one of those thousands of people has their own unique story to tell about how it affected them and what they experienced.
Thatâs the beauty of EVE. Action and reaction. Emergence.
Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground youâll ever experience.
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You make a character with that name to start in adventure in the dystopian hyper-capitalistic economic sandbox that is New Eden, and then a self-described inconsequential loss prompts a diatribe about how Eve would be better if players couldnât be âbastardsâ to each other? This game, is only a real game because we all have different interests and compete with each other, like chess, Monopoly or poker, which sometimes means you are going to lose. How could players really complete if highsec was completely safe and featured all the industry and resource generation?
Piracy is a feature of Eve, not a problem. It was designed to be part of the game from the ground up, and if anything has been made harder and less common over the years, coincidently as the player numbers have gone down. That isnât solid proof of anything, but does argue against your thesis that highsec piracy is the âreal reasonâ the player population is declining.
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Yes. And most of them use non-illegalized drugs in real life.They are bigots, their opinion doesnât matter to me.
Welcome to the world. Kids learn from their peers and the elder. Kids have not yet developed the fine mechanics of being a bigot, e.g. condemning in others, what one does himself. Problems of substance users usually come from social exclusion, criminalization, addiction and dependence on crap people who abuse their dependance. Yeah, many substances arenât exactly healthy, but any stable, accepted and loved adult can deal with it in a responsible way. Kids should learn to be responsible, honest and social beings. Surely not bigots who condemn others and secretly put needles in their arms because they grew up with bigot parents whose entire life is a lie.
That being said, this game is surely not PEGI 12, but thatâs mostly due to bullying strategies that are being applied here and there and younger peoples vulnerability to that.
Well the worst is that it encourages grinding and mining. It doesnât really encourage thinking outside of the box, because it is a box, rather complicated for a game, but not nearly as it should be. There is nothing wrong with a bit of a friendly brawl. The entire âsalt-farmingâ on the other hand⌠yeah, thatâs not the games fault. thatâs people who are wimps in real life, probably broken beyond repair, who now live in their fantasy world in which they once can change sides and become the bully. In reality they are full of impotent rage and hope they can inflict it here onto others. Just chill when you meet them. They are not really bad, they are just victims who canât face their real issues.
Nah. You can transport your ISK risk-free all the time. Sadly, no one can take it away from you. The same now for PLEX. In real life many goods arenât transported in heavily armored cars. Think spaghetti. Why would you need an armed guard for that? I see part of your point though. EVE is a game and you shouldnât expect thing to work like in real life. Of course, if youâd take down a freighter in real life using ships full of personel, under the eyes of a superior police force (Concord in game), it would end badly, if your crew would even be willing to kamikaze themselves with you. In EVE, most ganking (unlawful PVP in highsec) is done by alts of Goons, as a part of their recruitment strategy (getting miners into Null) or their market manipulation schemes (at the very least, excluding traders from the market). Both are legitimate strategies within the scope of the game.
I do think that ganking mechanics are too predictable though. They are boring for the attacker and the defender. They are legit, but boring, like many things in EVE.
Watch your tone. The way you speak doesnât exactly scream well-behaved. Face into the corner and think about it!
Trust is always a decision. Try to be more like Linux: donât depend on trust, have a safe base. From that on you can decide to trust without taking too much risk.
Kind of true, yeah, thatâs not exactly attractive about the game.
Someone hasnât read the ToSâŚ
No. Get your terms straight. Just because something doesnât emulate real life laws, doesnât mean it canât be a simulation.
Letâs say CCP didnât take or make any money with the game. Craplords that are whining about them not doing âtheir jobâ would probably still be here. Do you think your mom and pop, either or both of them, did have a pure relationships outside of the influence of money? No one has. It is cruel and sad, but it isnât CCPs fault, or well, it is CCPâs fault just as much as it is your own.
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And is a defender ârudeâ for trying to take the ball away from ball carrier? What about completing a set of properties and bankrupting an opponent in Monopoly?
Of course not. Eve is a competitive game and designed so people can contest âyourâ site or try to take your stuff by force. CCP could easily limit or lock access to sites like the did with Resource Wars, but they donât intentionally so that players can race and/or fight each other over the rewards. They are building a competitive game.
It isnât rude to play the game as intended or by the rules or compete with other players. If someone thinks so, it is a mismatch of their expectations thinking Eve is more of a cooperative resource grinding exercise rather than a pseudo-harsh competitive PvP game. Wanting something else is fine. Thinking everyone else wants the same cooperative experience you want however is bordering on self-centredness.
Eve is what she is.
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bla bla bla bla, make the game more boring and millions of people will want to play it, bla bla bla bla think of the children.
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Are you the same guy that wouldnât smuggle imperial slaves in elite
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EVE is a strange strategy game.
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If one is interested in joining a game of American football, but expect and are used to the rules of soccer, be prepared to be hurt and disappointed with the experience. Also, donât expect the rules to be changed to fit your needs. The current problems with EVE is far more than âbad people doing bad thingsâ, but it will take a fully involved and commited CCP to resolve.
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Thereâs no need. Some of the T1 haulers can already tank hard and long enough to survive being hit by several Catalysts or a couple of Tornado volleys, hell itâs possible to get the buggers into warp before a 'nado can even get a lock; however they canât do it with no one at the keyboard or if theyâre cargo tanked.
As with everything in Eve, choose wisely, because bad choices lead to bad things happening.
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Thatâs absolutely true. Which is why we reply to âI quitâ posts, here and on Reddit, with congratulations for winning EVE.
Those who still play do so because thereâs still some enjoyment to be gotten out of losing. Fights, ships, ISKâŚ
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I want to see the killmail that caused this thread 
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