The *real* way to handle nullsec botting

Also, a way to make nullsec players slightly less risk-averse. Hopefully.

The core concept of this idea resolves around the fact that NS botters tend to dock up instantly when local bumps. Simply have your own wandering autopilot bots that will go through random systems in a shuttle. If/when it dies, it gets back in a shuttle and heads back to random NS locations. Depending on how many of these are out and about, you can probably take out a decent chunk out of botters in-space times.

No. Just report them and move on.

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That empirically does not work, though.

If it “empirically does not work”, then you should be able to provide said empirical evidence. So I’ll leave you with a [citation needed].

(but I already know you’ll pulling that out of your ass, so don’t feel too offended)

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You haven’t read the last SEVERAL security reports from CCP, have you?

Let’s have a look at some numbers:

  • Since 1 January 2020, 107,000 reports have been sent from 13,600 EVE accounts.
  • 27,000 of these reports resulted in permanent bans against a total of 4,600 EVE accounts.

If you simply can’t get enough of juicy graphs and botting talk, it is highly recommended that you watch CCP Larrikin’s talk from EVE Vegas 2019.

These are snippets from only the most recent of the last SEVERAL dev blogs published in the past year, since CCP has launched a more dedicated anti-botting initiative sometime last year.

A simple google search or browsing through news archives of CCP’s posts will pull up a trove of articles on their anti-botting efforts.

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Okay, so I guess these things just take time.

There can only ever be so many bots, so eventually botters will just stop after their fiftieth account gets banned?

Please read the reports so you can answer the more obvious questions you might have. Then you’ll be able to raise more intelligent questions and points worth discussing :upside_down_face:

Players can a good source of ideas when it comes to anti-botting (via direct anti-botting measures, or gameplay mechanics that simultaneously enhance the game and make it harder to bot), but players have to be educated before they can start whipping out ideas left and right. Otherwise they’ll just end up being another Brewlar. We don’t need any more Brewlars. One was bad enough. It was very embarrassing.

Player reports have been consistently static at roughly 500(per day?), and amount of accounts banned for botting is going up vaguely(no y-axis label?) over time. But neither of these seems to indicate that botting is actually going down.

It does look like the dedicated anti-botting initiative has effort being put into it. But, I’m just not seeing the results.

Then you’re not paying attention.

Not only have the bot account bans skyrocketed since CCP launched their anti-botting initiative, but the market impacts have been readily felt, including the massive drop in PLEX prices and major altercations to other prices (esp. minerals). There was one article in particular published a few months ago that went through these numbers and their effects on the game with a fine tooth comb.

The impact is large scale and significant and increasingly so. The details are quantified throughout numerous posts. If you don’t want to find those posts or read them in detail (protip: you can’t find and skim them all in 5 minutes) then that’s fine, but don’t come back here flaunting that botting is a problem that isn’t being addressed properly.

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Question, then: If I take a handful of frigates through nullsec and try to hit the most likely ratting anoms every time I see more than my fleet’s ships in local, but the people in system dock up the moment I come into local, over the course of hundreds of systems(granted, occasionally would hit some of the same systems a few times due to the unfortunate way signal filaments work) - Do you expect this behaviour to be perfectly in line with normal human attention levels?

This is a thing that I’ve experienced recently, and no way in hell does it look like people are behind these insta-dock characters.

Ok, because I see to trying to reply (without actually knowing what you’re talking about), please at least take the time to watch CCP’s own presentation about their anti-botting efforts. Everything you’ve said here just showcases that you don’t actually know what you’re talking about and that you’re just coming up with talking points based off of what you think botting is really like.

Your proposal of “fight botting by botting yourself” is absolutely, pants on head, moronic and dumb. At best, you’ll get yourself banned, and at worse, you’ll get yourself banned. It’s not up to players to deal with bots in game. At best, you report them, and move on. You don’t fight bots by botting yourself. That’s so incredibly stupid, I cannot believe you even thought that was worth suggesting as an idea. Please, sit down and think about how bad that idea was before you open your mouth ever again.

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Not going to happen.

If you want to waste your life fighting bots like this, that’s your perogative. I have more important ■■■■ to do than alt-tabbing through multiple accounts to warp frigates around back and forth.

If, however, you are suggesting that people BOT these frigates, in order to “counter” other bots, then I’m gonna say you are absolutely dumb. You don’t fight bots by botting. You fight bots by reporting them to CCP, and letting them handle it. You do not fight botting by botting yourself, or you are just contributing to the problem (and being a piece of garbage hypocritical person, though I wouldn’t be surprised).

CCP has made it unambiguously clear that “Report Bot” actually has an impact, and that it only takes a very small selection of bots to have a cataclysmic impact on the economy. Those “few” bots that were removed were responsible for a spectacularly stupid drop in PLEX prices (and other very, very significant price alterations to the economy as a whole) thanks to inflation finally being under control… and that was just the beginning. Do not underestimate the value of the “report bot” feature. Stop asking for gizmos and gadgets and stick to basics: see a bot? Use the report bot feature, because CCP actually uses it per frequently released security reports.

And yes, CCP is implementing more tools and gameplay changes (that simultaneously enhance the game and make botting more difficult) to mitigate botting further, but “report bot” remains the most effective tool. Want to be the ultimate vigilante? See if you can land yourself in the Top 10 for capsuleers who submit bot reports. 10th place currently has 123 submissions - try to beat that.

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First and foremost, this is not to saying that botting is not an issue, or that CCP shouldn’t take it seriously. However, I do want to add to the discussion by saying that a lot of players seem to think other players are bots. I used to get messages all the time when .01 isking asking if I was a bot, and I’ve had people say in local that I was a bot when they rolled up on me multiboxing.

I’m not saying you’re guilty of this, but it is clear to me that many players do misidentify botters. They see “autistic no-lifers” doing things like updating market orders for hours on end, controlling multiple accounts, or docking up as soon as a neut enters system, and assume that it must be bot.

So, I have to wonder, how do you tell the difference between a bot that is docking up instantly when you show up in local and an attentive player?