active will be bhaal neuted before you can activate your mods.
OC it’s 100k ehp full passive. the only active modules are the MWD and the cloak.
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Ok sweet I’ll play with fits. My skills limit me
go on pyfa.
Just a proof it’s easy :
impel is 260M so you have only 100M in the fit. rigs are 20M each, MWD is 6M so … well it’s not that hard to make, took me 2 min.
If you want to move more, you must be able to pay more …
I let you tell me how many canes you need to put it down.
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Well dammit whyd I shoot for Occator then?
Or should Occator be comparable?
the only one which is bad is the matar. occator is circa bustard.
but you REALLY need to use pyfa.
I warned ya about fuel xD
Well I made my first rookie mistake when doing the numbers. Wont happen again.
At least Fuel Blocks act as a hedge against depreciating pi if needed.
Yep. Either the proclaimed ‘player driven economy’ is full of idiots or someone is pulling strings. Most items sell for less than the cost of the materials to make them. It makes zero sense in a ‘player driven economy’. About the only category where you can actually profit is the most common T1 ammos and ships… if you have maxxed BPOs to copy.
Anyone have a Female Exotic Dancer BPO yet?? I’d like a few 100-run BPCs. Thanks.
This just means that resellers of input mats are selling for a higher price than what consumers of those inputs consider them worth when making higher value industrial products.
It works something like this.
Industry product costs:
A
B
C
D
I made A so A=0.
So industry product has a profitability of product - (B+C+D)=profit
This way of thinking is wrong. Because you should be figuring your profit based on the cost you could sell A for if you just sold it…because that is YOUR opportunity cost.
Therefore Eve is full of idiots.
there are a lot of other explanations.
One is, if you gank someone and can have his cargo. You don’t want to play cancer tradegame, so you dump at lower price.
Another is, if you have a very efficient pipeline of production. That means, you have low cost index, and you produce the items required. In that case, instead of having the price of A from the the market, the price of A is the buy order minus the taxes or the SO price minus broker and taxes, and minus the volumic price. Because then, the price of A is the price of not selling it after moving it. which means, for some items the price of consuming it in production is much lower than the price of people who don’t produce it (example : tritanium)
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I’ve considered this which I take into account as the cost-basis of A.
The only real savings as you described is the price you made it (bought it) minus the taxes/fees you’d get for selling it.
For fuel blocks. It could be done from buy orders…but I often find the buy orders to be up against the spread of sales tax and brokerage so you’re still paying same either way. (For my current skills and standing).
So I haven’t started trying buy orders yet.
…
okay let’s say you need only tritanium, and the best for that is compressed dense veldspar.
We just consider this compressed ore now, refining or whatever is of no concern. It’s just usually better to move compressed ore and we assume so.
Let’s say that a 1 000 000 m³ freighter trip is worth 100M (for the distance), ie 100 isk/m³. a 0.15 m³ dense veldpar then costs 15 isk to move to or from jita.
The price at BO is 1760 isk,price at SO is 2095. Either you have the item, or you need to buy it.
- If you have the item, you could sell it directly at jita for 1760 isk. You pay 2.25% in tax so 44 isk. In the end, selling your compressed would have netted you 1760-15-44 = 1701 isks.
- Iif you need to purchase the item : let’s say you buy it directly , it’s just SO price + volumic price so 2095+15 = 3010 isks.
The fact or not having it increase price by 76.9%
How you got it is not a concern. You are subject to the fallacy of sunken costs. If they mined it, you have to assume it was worth their time doing so, eg because they were okay with getting 1701 isk per item.
As you can see, having produced the item yourself can reduce the price of the item a lot.
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Geten can you state that differently to me?
Because I’m having difficulty seeing the point in making product A to make the final product profitable.
When I can just make product A and sell that.
Not harvesting it from game from scratch using my play time to harvest…which is like converting time into game items
To reword my question.
I can sell pi for the SO price
Fuel blocks are at a loss at SO price.
In that case shouldnt I just sell the pi and not make the fuel blocks?
that’s actually kinda what you’re saying in
Basically the price for a consumer of A is much more than the price for a producer of A.
just make your evaluation of the fuel block.
Here is the materials for 4000 helium fuel block :
Planetary materials
Item Required Available Est. Unit price typeID
Robotics 100 8806 91899.08 9848
Enriched Uranium 357 88 14204.45 44
Mechanical Parts 357 28851 10516.81 3689
Coolant 802 2495 12543.18 9832
Oxygen 1961 61767 375.19 3683
Minerals
Item Required Available Est. Unit price typeID
Strontium Clathrates 1782 208551 3082.02 16275
Heavy Water 15147 1064548 279.92 16272
Liquid Ozone 31185 1057060 237.07 16273
Helium Isotopes 40095 0 595.92 16274
here is the price of the items :
70.85 M SO / 63.51M BO, 28700 m³. Assuming 100 isk/m³ that means 2.87M in price to move it. fuel block is 20 000 m3 so 2M.
job cost for me is 1M5, time is 11:33:36. Assuming you value your line at 100k/hour that means 1.15M for the job.
If I have all the items (because I produce them) then dumping them on the market would net me 63.51 * (100-2.5)/100 =61.92M
minus volumic price is 59.05M. That’s the value of the items if I produce them.
Then I add the volumic price of moving the product to jita, the cost of the job, of theline => 59.05+2+1.5+1.15 = 63.7M for 4k fuel block or 16k/u. I add the tax so 16k*100/(100-2.5)= 16.33k /u. BO is 18.67 k so that’s 12.5% margin.
If I don’t produce the items , the cost is so+ input volumic + line+ job +output volumic = 78.37. apply tax => 80.38M for 4k u, or 20.1 k/u. Then you are at loss.
Where you are exactly between the two depends on your exact production.
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But Geten. How do you justify creating product to make another product if that product sells at a loss if you bought inputs at Jita SO?
Just sell the inputs?
I don’t ?
You don’t need to justify it , the two things are completely uncorrelated.
You don’t “create another product to make another product”. You create the first product because in the long run it’s worth creating it.
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well that is ludricous, Fuel blocks I can sell at 1500-2500 ISK per block to break even.
Try again.
That’s not jita prices so who knows what you’re doing to make that work?
I’m not a titan, but I’ll throw in my 2 cents.
First, about Jita. Faction standing with the NPC station owner makes a difference in broker’s fees. When I place orders in Dodixie IX moon 20, my broker’s fee is 3.05. In other stations in the same region, my broker’s fee goes up to 3.65 in a Kaalakiota station. In short, if you want to trade in Jita you will need a character (preferrably an alt that never leaves station) that has decent standing with Caldari Navy. The same goes for any other market hub but with a different NPC corp. Your character will also want to have trained Broker Relations and Accounting to at least IV, among other mandatory skills.
Since we’re talking about Broker’s fees, we may as well talk about Player owned stations. You want to make Buy Orders in neighboring Player owned stations because of the lower Broker’s Fee. I set up Buy orders 1 jump away from Dodixie IX moon 20 that have a range of 1 jump. This means that anyone who wants to sell an item when they are docked in Dodixie can sell the item to me (while I enjoy a .5% broker’s fee.) This can be risky because people like to explode stations, but asset safety exists. Saving 2.05% on broker’s fees can add up to millions of isk very easily, so it’s worth considering.
You also need to decide what region in which you’ll be buying materials, manufacturing items, and then selling the items. Once again, there are advantages to using Player owned structures which includes material cost and time reductions. Make use of the industry window and the “Facilities” tab. There are a lot of options here. As far as trade hubs, Jita is the largest by volume, followed by Domain and then Dodixie. Rens and Hek are tied for least volume of the trade hubs, and together they are about the same volume as Dodixie.
As I said before, you probably want a market alt that stays in station. One thing to consider when you pick a trade hub is the market bots. I don’t know how many market bots there are because I just don’t have the data, but it’s a safe bet that there are a good number of them sitting in Jita IV-4. If you want to compete with other players and bots in the .01 isk game it’s something to think about. Depending on what you sell, it might not affect you at all, however. Your mileage may vary.
Final thought, I wouldn’t do anything industry related if I didn’t enjoy it. I build tech II products exclusively, and there is profit to be had on hundreds of different modules and ships. But, I don’t do it for the money; I do it because the process is interesting and requires a degree of organization. The industrial journey can take months or even years depending on how many people and characters are dedicated to it. It’s a building experience and not something that you can max out in a week. (Maybe you could if you had enough isk, but whatevers!)
That’s my 2 cents. I could go on further about all the things you need for industry but this is a start at least.
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