It’s chillingly simple. The Gallente saw an opening to cripple the Amarr, and used it. The same can be said on our part when the Amarr decided to put us last on their Reclaiming list because it is easier for them to deal with the Gallente this way. The fact is, we have a lot in common with the Minmatar, from our history to our missile systems. But it’s the friends we made that we disagree on. Things would probably be very different if both of the larger empires cease to be a threat to our survival.
You mean relations like those that existed at the beginning of Catiz’s reign, and led to Shakor attending a number of diplomatic functions on Athra?
You destroyed that, not us.
You destroyed it when the Empire did nothing about the murder of millions on Kahah III. The responding economic sanctions against the Empire by both Federation and Republic? That is how nations peacefully relate at points of conflict: they enact diplomatic and economic expressions of disapproval.
And what was the response from the Empire? We’re told that in addition to lashing out when it was made public that Amarr militia capsuleers in his military circuit were conspiring with their opposites in MinMil, Arrach Sarum’s declaration of planet-wide Reclaiming on Floseswin IV was exactly that: a response to economic sanctions.
There’s the Empire’s response to peaceful relations. Violence. Again. As always.
But let me just take a step back, and address your original point.
We are. That’s undeniable. We are a maimed and brutalized people. We fight against our former oppressors. We fight against the injuries they inflicted and the effects they still have upon us, physically and psychologically. Take a good, long look into the Sanmatar’s sightless eyes. They’re a lingering marker, generations later, of the brutality and abuse inflicted upon his ancestors at a genetic level for their defiance.
And we fight against ourselves. We fight to be more than what you made of us. We struggle and strive every day to recover bits and pieces of our past—things the Empire could simply give us, if they were so inclined. We know they have extensive records of the society they destroyed, locked away in safe-keeping. Imagine, just for a moment, what a step toward peace it would be if the Empire were to release those records to the Republic. To copy all of that over, and give back even a tenth of what was taken.
Now ask yourself: while the Empire withholds that… can they truly claim any overture they make is ‘peaceful’? Is that a rational, sane thing to claim while the Empire continues to steal from us our very heritage? Or are those peaceful overtures simply the prosecution of Amarr’s war on all other cultures by less overt means?
I am very, very keen to find out the answer to that, at the national scale. I suspect the answer will surprise most of the cluster. On a smaller scale… I can tell you, quite easily, who some of us are.
We are the ones who wait, who watch, alert in blinds and hidden redoubts.
We are the eyes that search the heavens for the next rain of darkness
We are spread among the stars, to better see that which we hope never comes.
We are those who failed our duty once, and shall not ever do so again.
We are Stjörnauga, and we do not forget.
In slightly more verbose terms, we serve our people, working among the RSS and the Fleet, watchful for threats. A handful of us are even working in CONCORD. And no, we don’t define ourselves by you. Not even when we focus on those potential threats. We define ourselves by us. Our duty. Our obligations, past, present, and future, and the people to whom those obligations are owed.
And that, in general, is how most of us tend to define ourselves: as members of a larger family, larger community, who have obligations to one another that we strive to meet. We are not servants of your imaginary narcissist. We are servants of the very demonstrably real people in our lives, and those in their lives.
There are many gods in this universe And the Amarr God is the most powerful of them all But power is not wisdom And might does not make right
I freely and completely renounce the Evil God I will not obey His commands I will not follow His followers I will not fear His punishment
I am Rhiannon I am Sebiestor I stand here today, on our land, with my kin And we will not let the Darkness fall (1)
May I live a dutiful life May I find my Fate and fulfill it May my ancestors smile when they see me Today, and on the day of my death
(1) This line tends to be hell on translators. The meaning is “we will never not be free”, but the word used for ‘not-free’ is the same we use for ‘Darkness’ in a figurative or poetic sense. I apologize if it comes through mangled.
This is where I feel you gravely misunderstand the nature of both God and Holy Amarr, Ms. Rhiannon. God is not just our God, in opposition to ’yours’. God is God; the singular; one and only. There is only Him and no other. He is everybody’s God; the single arbitrator of truth. Our ancestors simply found Him first. We do not spread his light across the cluster because we wish to destroy what you are, we do it to help you discover who you are.
Discovering God is liberation, ma’am. Perhaps not in the way you understand the term, but any Faithful servant of Him understands.
I must say that you have a very considerable talent for writing long, rambling posts that present themselves as responses to other people’s arguments, whilst in fact sidestepping them entirely.
Look again at what I said, the very thing you quoted. I am suggesting that the Republic respects the shared frameworks that our leaders have developed. The Yulai Accords affirmed the sovereignty of Holy Amarr over Kahah III. That was a domestic matter for the Empire and the Empire alone to resolve. His Royal Highness Sarum’s campaign on Floseswin IV was likewise conducted in accordance with the terms outlined within the CEMWPA. In all cases, the joint-frameworks we have developed to manage relations between us were respected, at least on Holy Amarr’s side.
If you take issue with these frameworks and the actions they permit, then that is a matter better taken up with the Republic Government that signed up to them. Do not blame Holy Amarr for what your own Government agreed to - especially not while you simultaneously profess such pride in your autonomy.
Contrary to the oft-disingenuous way in which my arguments are portrayed by others here on this Summit, I am not of the view that there are any easy ways of overcoming our differences. I do not believe that respecting the joint-frameworks we negotiate and agree to acts as some sort of magical solution to all of our problems, suddenly enabling us to sing and dance together under beautiful skies while the nature of our fraught history fades into obscurity. No, reality is far more complex than that.
I do, however, believe that upholding our word, once given, and engaging with each other in good faith in relation to those frameworks that we have agreed is a fundamental part of moving towards a greater future. Perhaps the importance of keeping one’s word once given is not given much recognition within your tribal cultures. If so, then I realise that this may be a challenging concept to understand, but please try to recognise that, in Holy Amarr, the word of the Empress is God’s divine word, as is working towards a greater future a fundamental part of our Faith.
This belief is a major part of why I was willing to fly alongside capsuleers loyal to the Republic and the Federation against the Kybernaut menace during the recent Pochven campaigns; because I respect the joint-institutions our nations have built and will do whatever must be done to defend them. I did that even as it drew the ire and condemnation of even some of my most esteemed Faithful brethren. Unfortunately, you and many like you make it extremely difficult to feel like the effort is worth it, but I shalln’t give up on my beliefs no matter how hard you try to dismiss them.
You are lying. Specifically, you lie when you assert, “I am suggesting that the Republic respects the shared frameworks that our leaders have developed.” In fact, you suggested no such thing. Rather, you explicitly said:
With that statement, you accused the Republic of undermining those international frameworks. Furthermore, you assert that ‘we’—from context and tone, clearly meaning ‘The Amarr Empire’—have ‘fought tirelessly to rebuild’ those frameworks.
But is that truly the case? Or does the Empire attempt to wield CONCORD and Yulai like a sword and shield?
Yes, Kahah III was an internal matter. That doesn’t mean other nations don’t get to express their disapproval. By using diplomatic and economic means to express that disapproval, the Republic did respect the shared framework of the Yulai Accords. This sort of response is how nations provide disincentives for behavior they find objectionable in other nations.
And let’s keep in mind that, in their execution, those sanctions are a prohibition against Republic corporations trading with the Amarr. They make no claim to enact legal consequences against subjects of the Empire, only citizens of the Republic. Which makes them a matter of internal law under your framework.
If the Empire’s internal matters aren’t appropriate fodder for international response, then the Republic’s internal matters—like restricting the travel and activities of its citizens—enjoy similar protection. Surely, the Empire, so adamant that internal matters be above international reaction, would respect that, right? To do otherwise would be hypocritical.
The Empire, after all, is not entitled to the Republic’s trade, and unless you can show me the specific language in the Accords that says they are, then the Republic is entirely within their rights to withhold it when they feel the Empire’s actions warrant such a response. You know, in accordance with the shared framework that our leaders have developed.
And yet, the Empire claims that not getting our goods and money from us is an act of aggression. And they pressed that case in the CONCORD Inner Circle. To attempt to use the Inner Circle in that manner demonstrates a profound disrespect for the institution. CONCORD is meant to resolve disputes, not allow itself to be used as a bludgeon against the insecurities of the cluster’s second largest economy.
And then there’s Floseswin.
In fact, your claim that Sarum’s campaign of ground invasion on Floseswin IV was conducted in accordance with the CEMWPA is completely spurious. If that were the case, CONCORD’s Inner Circle would not have been arguing about exactly that question for over a year.
Note the context there: The Floseswin IV situation is cited in the 2nd paragraph as the worst incident among ‘a number of loopholes and gaps’ that have ‘exposed shortcomings in the interstellar legal framework’. That means, no, it is not in accordance with the CEMWPA, it’s just not explicitly in violation of it. It is, in fact, a gray area, where treaties drafted to regulate the activities of capsuleers in space are suddenly found to not cover whether or not the baseliner forces of a major national military invading a planet and enslaving the population is legal, or an act of war well beyond the scope of the Militia War Powers Act.
Which means, again, it is the Amarr who are not respecting the shared frameworks that our leaders have developed. Both through the invasion of Floseswin IV, and in their insistence that Republic economic sanctions are an act of aggression against the Empire.
Fortunately, CONCORD has, so far, refused to kowtow to Amarr’s attempts to undermine the international framework and the institutions built upon it. But really, anyone attempting to twist Yulai to that extent can hardly be said to be ‘fighting tirelessly’ to rebuild and uphold that framework, or those institutions.
You know, I admit, this one almost made me mad. But then I remembered that I’m dealing with the Amarr. It’s alright. I can forgive you your incapacity to understand just how extreme an insult you’ve tried to lob at me. It’s not your fault, after all. I just hope that some day, you’ll have a chance to recover from the Empire’s conditioning and the rampant stupidity in inflicts upon you.
It had not been my intent to cause offense. Your people often speak proudly of their culture, and to be honest, talking to you makes me wonder what values you must hold to a different level to us in order to facilitate the frankly perplexing conclusions you come to. It was an attempt at understanding, not insult.
I believe there is little more positive impact my continued participation in this thread can have. I have said what I needed to say.
Then perhaps consider what it might mean to say that someone who has already told you their Clan defines themselves by their obligations that you don’t think they consider keeping their word to be important.
So let me just say by no means am I now some well informed outsider that understands the Matari perfectly. I can’t ever make such a claim, but I took these Liberation games as a chance to learn more about Matari society. I gotta say that in my short time of trying to immerse myself in their culture and history, I’m leaving the borders of the Republic with some new found respect. Not to say that I didn’t respect the Minmatar before, just that now I’m just a bit more educated than I was previously
Representing the Thukkers I put 1,200 on the board. No doubt there were more hungry contestants out there that most likely shot up past this mark, but having found myself finding the Nomadic lifestyle of the Thukkers to be inspiring, felt right to some some respect for them by putting in overtime to put another 600 points up on the board alongside the 600 they expected out of me.
I was awarded access to some tattoos of their design for hitting that first 600 point milestone and I found myself interested in wearing them, but I’m aware of how such things are sacred and will refrain from doing so for now. I’d had hope by putting more points up I’ll be that much closer to properly earning them as an outsider. Though I’m thinking I prolly gotta find some other ways outside the Games to earn them.
Regardless, I’ve enjoyed these festivities and felt it was both an educational and even lucrative time. Hope to see Team Thukker take the win when all the points are tallied up
Looking back, I see a lot of back-and-forth between the Empire and Republic. I hope my fellow Amarrians will forgive me for this slightly heretical statement, but the Republic has clearly shown that they don’t want His teachings. That is their choice. They have rejected God, and that’s fine. I don’t like it, but it is what it is. Besides, we have more pressing matters, Triglavians, Sansha’s, Blood Raiders, Drfters, etc.
Not entirely, I’m not renouncing the Empire pr anything, I just hate the fact that my fellow Amarrians treated the Matari like cattle for centuries, and acted like the Matari shouldn’t of gotten ticked off.
Bit of a rant, sorry bout that.
I’ll take a chocolate chip, and I prefer coffee over tea.
That must have taken days to work together. Even by sticking your neck out in low-sec or null-sec, earning points by the drop would have driven a lot of people crazy. And that’s not counting high-sec where every Games site degenerates into a rat race or pirate campsite.
Spent must of my time out in Wildlands fittingly enough. Aside from the few encounters with Capsuleers trying to tear my ship asunder (With one encounter being successful) I found my time out there to be quite peaceful. It’s nice out there in the Wildlands, Sure maybe it could use a few more stations - But I realize that’s not the THukker’s style.
Kept wanting to see one of these great caravans for myself. Just had a hope every system i turned into I’d get a glimpse of one of them. Though maybe they’re just that damn good at keeping them hidden, for the best anyway. I can see why they won’t want some tourist like me to catch wind of their trail and start taking pictures to show everyone.
I find their way of life to be inspiring as it is impressive. They have to be incredibly resourceful to make a lifestyle among the stars as nomads in parts of space like this. Living off the… Well, Space for all their needs.
I find myself drawn more towards the Sebiestor. My life has had parallels with their culture. I grew up working in a factory from six, assisting the technicians and mechanics till I became a tech myself at eleven. I’ve spent all my life tinkering with machines and electronics, and even though I left that line of work in my teens I’ve still always had little side projects to work on to clear my mind, first of the cases I worked on, then of the politics I was embroiled with.
Likewise, I grew up in a harsh and inhospitable place, though the opposite from the Tribe. Instead of an arctic landscape, my is made up of irradiated desert, irradiated mountains, and slightly less irradiated scrublands.
It also helps that one of my best friends is a Sebiestor. She and I have been through a lot. Because of her, I tend to employ more Sebiestor than from any other tribe, should I have the option. In fact, I’m working on a project right now that has to do with expanding business into the Republic, providing jobs and opportunities for those who meet the criteria.