Peace in our time

Taking this to its own thread as it really does not have anything to do with the Amarr celebrations anymore.

Newelle, you pretty much just summed up how the very existence of the idea of ‘Reclaiming’ affects the free Minmatar people. Stay on our side of the border? You’ll still want to Reclaim us. Make peace with you? You’ll still want to Reclaim us. Get assurances that only peaceful Reclaiming is on the table? It’ll last exactly as long as it takes for someone like Chakaid to grab power. How are we supposed to get around that?

You are tired, Newelle? How many of your family have died in the Deathglow attacks? How many of your wife’s live in slavery? Did any of your liege-lords die in an assassination because they spoke for peace? How many times have you been called a traitor by your own because you did?

Welcome to my world.


I had a thread about this two years ago. Some decent thoughts were shared, and those gave me hope. A lot of tripe was also exchanged, but I did not pay it much heed until last year.

I still believe most of what I said in that book-long trail of cynicism trying to crush idealism, but my patience is wearing thin. If you cannot even recognize the times when we actually are legitimately trying to just mind our own business, is there hope? You tell me, Elsebeth.

If the times when you are legitimately minding your own business will be drowned by a Reclaiming anyway, does it matter?

I suppose not to you. You brought war to my doorstep.

Anyway, I am done here. If any other inspired, starry-eyed Amarr wishes to pick up the Torch of Peace and beat her over the head with it, be my guest.

Wait - are you talking about Thebeka?

Because if so, no, I did not.

Let me say this again: I did not start the fights in Thebeka. I did not even really feed it; the Rebellion there started without any intervention from me, or from anyone I could name, and as far as I understand, without off-planet interaction of any kind. I certainly was not in contact with anyone at that point; I had barely heard of the system.

No one brought the Resistance to Thebeka, It was always there. It probably still is. If you want to blame someone for sparking the rebellion, blame the Blood Raiders, who provided a Vak’Atioth for the people of Thebeka.

Once it was on, I helped, sure. I tried to use the situation. I helped people escape. But I was not the one who brought it, and I could not have stopped it, had I wanted to.

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“We expect the retaking of Dabara will take some time. Given the wise forbearance of the Lords Ardishapur and Sarum, upheld by Her Sublime Imperial Majesty, all should condemn the continued interference in our sovereign internal affairs by the Gallente Federation and, most especially, the Minmatar Republic. It has not gone unnoticed by us that the rebels were armed and ready for this sequence of events. We also have tracked many of the so-called Republic Justice Department’s infiltration vessels across Amarr space and most particularly in Alkabsi and Thebeka. These attempts to destabilize the Empire must cease. We have acted with forebearance but also with necessity. We would expect nothing less from others should rebellion arise in their territory.” - Captain Marshal Sirdan xer Qosh, December 20th, YC 120

Gods grant me patience.

Yes, I helped the rebellion. Yes, RJD probably does the same, though I am not in that need-to-know.

But if you sincerely believe that there would not be resistance or rebellions without Republic influence, or that without us, the people of Thebeka would not have acted, you are a fool, Newelle.

How do you think the Republic came to be?

Gallente and Jove interference.

Is that what your history books tell you?

Yes, they provided aid. Yes, they provided the original Vak’Atioth event.

But the resistance that the Federation aided was already there when we first found out they existed.

If you need to look at a sparking event for its formation, maybe look at the extinction of Starkmanir. Look up “Khumaak”. Just like us in Thebeka, the Federation did not bring the rebellion. It was always there.

For a man who repeatedly comments on how much he “wants a peaceful solution”, this blinkered, one-sided, and entirely Amarrian understanding of history does you no credit whatsoever.

I can’t believe I’m saying it, but I expected better.


I am sorry I do not live up to your expectations. It is a problem you seem to have often, so I pray you may sympathize.

Alright, now I am done.

Then have a nap.

On a more serious note though, you really don’t seem to get anything you’re told. Minmatar can’t rest peacefully until you (the Amarr, collectively, not you) give up the Reclaiming. Which, you’ve said many times, will not happen.

The only people who brought war to Thebeka were the Amarr, in attacking the Minmatar Empire and enslaving our people. Once that happened, uprisings were inevitable.

It is a problem I have often, every time you get close to being someone admirable or interesting you do something to prove that false.

For every one of your fold that dangles peace out there, there are 2 maybe 3 who retract it, even within your own ranks. I’d truly love to not have to deploy on your forces. I’d truly love to not have to fight for our existence and simply deploy on cartel or even your enemies, the blood raiders. But while there’s those like yourself who offer hope there are more who offer the whip over the carrot.

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Can’t we all just…oh, wait, I just remembered what this place is and it isn’t for making a decent sandwich let alone something as high minded as peace.


Given that the issues involved in the mutual escalations of the last several decades are above the paygrade of even the most decorated capsuleer, our talking about what we personally think is really quite pointless.

And yes, this is a criticism of my own past contributions to useless discussions about peace.

What you[1] judge to be right or wrong is never above your pay grade, as it were. And any time you let someone else overrule your own sense of right and wrong, you hide from your responsibilities in a craven display of cowardice.

1. The generic ‘you’, of course.

Well, that was unexpected.

It’s not a matter of right and wrong, Arrendis. Though morality should certainly inform actions.

It’s a matter of systems that are simply too big and too broken for anyone here to meaningfully affect them.

That said, I will say that rooting out the Blood Raider heretics that benefit from endless conflict and who have worked to reignite it every time peace seemed in reach would be a useful first step towards simplifying the problem.