Training Queue - Sort By Training Time

Hello, I’m a new play to Eve Online and I have a Quality of Life suggestion.

Problem: All Players (new players especially) that want to add an exceptionally long list of skills to train (i.e. adding all the “Magic 14” skills to level 5) have to painstakingly sort each individual skill one-by-one, if they want to sort by training time.

Recommended Solution: Add a button/feature inside the training queue that will sort skills, in ascending order, based on the time required to train that skill level.

As a new Omega player I just spent ~20 minutes arranging almost 5 months of skill training queue, instead of running a few low level security missions. This may not be a superb recommendation for a veteran player that spends the better part of a month on a single skill, but for new players… this would be a game changer in regard to skill training optimally.

Thank you for your time and consideration,
Raylas Astra

Hi @Raylas_Astra

  1. Non-critical ideas for implementation should be raised in the Player Features & Ideas category instead of Assembly Hall. This category should instead be used only for important, urgent, and relatively unanimous matters.
  2. I noticed you previously posted and deleted this same thread in General Issues - you can actually edit the category of a thread after posting it instead of having to delete and create a new one. To edit the category, simply edit the title of the thread and you can change the category from there (you don’t actually have to change the title.) I advise that you edit this thread’s category to Player Features & Ideas.
  3. EVEMon is the gold-standard tool for skill planning. You should consider using it for planning your skill training instead of hoping CCP will implement this idea (they won’t). CCP’s attitude is to not implement anything that 3rd party developers can do instead, often better. They almost never deviate from this mindset.
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Thank you for the feedback.

  1. My purpose was to bring up something I felt was important. What a player thinks is important is always subjective, but the point was that an effort was made to bring something to the attention of the CSM. “The CSM brings focused and structured feedback from the community to CCP and represents their views and interests.” I tried bringing it up in a structured way by announcing the problem and making a recommended solution.

  2. Thank you for the tip, I’ll keep this in mind. I thought I was posting here initially, only to realize it was in a different forum thread; so I deleted it.

  3. In my other unique forum post, I actually brought up EVEMon; I already know what that is, as I did a lot of research before picking up the game. Also, please provide the link where CCP announced their attitudes/mindset, so I will can reference it when making future recommendations. The fact that you say that CCP almost never deviate from it means that anything is possible, though improbable. Its probably not best to stifle a new player suggestions.

QoL feature requests are not ‘important’ in terms of having an a major impact in gameplay, the economy, player interaction, being time-sensitive, etc to the extent that it merits the direct attention of the CSM. There are numerous feature requests that carry orders of magnitude more weight than this, but they also do not belong in Assembly Hell but rather in Player Features & Requests, which is where 99% of players put them, and rightly so. Even discussions on colorblind friendly UI/UX enhancements, which is something CCP has been aggressively working on to enhance the gameplay experience and user retention for colorblind users, are taking place there (and in General Discussion) rather than here.

I have no such link, but in having played EVE for over 10 years it is quite obvious they don’t waste their time doing anything 3rd party devs can do. The non-existence of features for which 3rd party tools exist is evidence. CCP would rather introduce new ESI endpoints for 3rd party devs to use than new in-game features. The one notable exception was when they introduced the in-game fitting simulator, but that’s only because it had certain features that 3rd party software was incapable of doing unrelated to ship fitting, to stress the urgency of fit planning and make available fitting simulation to users who refuse to use categorically superior tools for fit simulation.

That is a great recommendation! Someone that has been playing on and off for the past 6+ yrs and many different accounts, this was the biggest discouragement that I had playing the game. This addition would have been very beneficial a long time ago.

Archer’s point in directing you to the Player Features and Requests forum is that this is a game feature request, not an idea to be debated by the playerbase and then championed by the CSM. These are distinct concepts that have separate homes. The Assembly Hall is intended to discuss mechanics, events, policies, etc., and how they impact players. Direct suggestions aren’t the goal of this section of the forum - it is a place for targeted discussion among players to capture experiences and points for view for for the CSM to review and present to CCP at their discretion. Frankly, the chances CSM will decide to take a feature request to CCP for implementation are vanishingly small, so posting the idea here is a form of self-sabotage.

CCP has already provided a Little things / Small QoL suggestions thread for this type of QoL suggestion - please use their stated preferred feedback method for optimum visibility to the devs.

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I’m missing something, the point of the Assembly Hall is stated in the forum’s information.

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The platform for players to bring topics to the attention of the CSM.

In this forum, any EVE player can raise an issue for debate.

The best and most supported of these issue threads are picked up by the CSM for debate. The issues that pass debate are bought to CCP, and if CCP consents, the issues get implemented into the game.

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I’m an Eve player and brought up an issue for other players to debate it. Seems like the only thing being debated is where it should go instead of the Assembly Hall. Archer is at least debating the idea a bit.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

You make a point about the QoL features not being ‘important’ but I’ll make a counterpoint.

~89% of new eve players don’t last past 7 days.

The game does not advertise these tools for a new player to use, but have made an effort to implement these tools’ data to be imported into the Eve client (i.e. clipboard imports, etc.).

What I don’t see, as a new player, when I log in is… Hey Reylas, are you having problems planning out your Skills? Try downloading these tool and giving your esi permissions to it to help you out. I understand there are proprietary / equity reasons why a company wont openly support a third party software, but some games can implement concepts introduced by third party programs into their architecture if it becomes common use amongst the player base.

There’s no doubt that Eve online has a high learning curve, but new players will immediately be turned off if games do not have quality of life features that ease them into the learning curve.

Thank you for the debating this idea with me, Archer. I value your input.

If you want to see your change happen, you are being advised on where to post it for maximum visibility to the right people - which are CCP devs in their QOL thread. Following forum norms can only help your effort, not hurt it.

There is really nothing to debate about the topic - it’s a simple QOL improvement request. CCP established a place to post those specifically because there is minimal potential for discussion.

edit to add: 99% of the info in the Assembly Hall description is outdated. Please accept that established players have a better understanding of how to effectively raise a suggestion and leverage our feedback - it’s meant to help you get your suggestion to the right audience so it has a chance of becoming reality instead of languishing in a largely unused forum category that CCP doesn’t read and CSM uses for CSM-to-player discussion- not to gather ideas from players.

That’s the purpose of the Player Features & Ideas forum.

This is not remotely related to your QoL request. I would estimate that only 1 +/- 1 players rage quit EVE over their inability to sort skills in the skill planner in the past year.

Indeed.

This is literally among the littlest and most insignificant and time-insensitive of requests that could possibly be made. CCP made an official Little things / Small QoL suggestions thread for precisely requests like these. Not-coincidentally, this thread appears in the Player Features & Ideas category.

I believe Raylas_Astra is on point here guys. The point being made is that there needs to be another way of sorting out these skills . Categories are great, but some are generalized. If an alphabetized and/or time on training skill sort button was added then you could find a skill a lot quicker. This isn’t difficult to do because you can sort your items in your holding the same way. In addition, new players are not given a lot of guidance on what they need to do. Yes, there are sites by third parties, but why did they need to make some of these sites? Because something was lacking in the game. Then you want to shut down what a third party site may have and say or a, “VALUED PLAYER”, it isn’t relevant to the game…HELLO!!!

There is another point to be made. First is that marginalizing the input of a “VALUED PLAYER” in the proper forum to bring up said topics, such as this, is not purposeful. Input by players should be received and considered. Again, this is the proper place to post this topic.

Second, Comments on this topic is open to everyone, but unless you work for Eve, to tell another player to bury it in another place and make it yourself look more important than any other player. Chances are you spend more time in the forum than in game play.

Third, I agree with the term “You Die You Learn”. but when you get tired of dying because nobody takes the time to teach or point you to a proper place to learn what a player needs to build up their skills is located. To be honest, I got tired of dying myself when I came online and it took a lot of effort to just find the places to learn from…Thank God for YouTube! this is why I feel that EVE has such an attrition rate of new players.

Forth and Last Point. I can’t stand the way mining has been changed. The worth value of minerals has been depressing to wonder into the more “Exotic” zones for ore. At least add some Concord Security in low sec.

Now that I have been playing since April, I have went to several iterations of changes in the game with updates and such. It was/is challenging keeping up with it all, but please add some sorting to the skills, just a simple sort will add value and retain players I feel.

Where ever there is a Grabas around, there is bound to be fun.

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So who decides what is not considered a Little Thing? Because what one person perceives as little, may be an iceberg in a different perspective. Maybe this is why Eve has a systemic problem with retention of new players. Their problems are seen as little and insignificant in the eyes of the veterans; which you, Archer, have just eluded to in your last comment.

As Grabas stated, marginalizing players is not purposeful. If the forum description is outdated, perhaps it foreshadows the architecture of the game itself; in need of an update / overhaul. In my very very limited experience in the game, some veterans are helpful (such as some in the Silent Company) and others give off a very distinct gatekeeper vibe. I’ve accepted this particular culture probably wont change, but that doesn’t mean that I wont continue to play the game and engage in the community the way I want.

Ultimately, posting on this forum is where I thought my issue should have went; after reading the Assembly Hall details. Although this has molded from an in-game issue/recommendation of an Assembly Hall into more of a Public Forum.

But, at least its getting some attention from other players; which was the reason I posted it initially; so I will mark this as a success. If someone else wants to post it to the Little Things / Small QoL Suggestions forum, feel free; but I’ve planted my flag here and here it shall stay… unless CCP removes it :smiley:

Flies away in Punisher

What I would like to see is what skills depend on each other. Say I’m training for a ship but it has prereqs I don’t have. Spaceship Command V for example. I have all the skills in queue. But there is NO visual clue those skills are tied together. I would like to see a line drawn between the skills so I don’t accidentally remove or try to move those skills.

Spaceship Command V ----
Drone durability V     |
Ship V              ----
Coffeemaking V